L-1011

[Fliteidol]

I saw these cats in Dubai, perfect name to sum up my career!!!



http://www.luzair.com/aboutus.html

 

[pilotyip]

Another reason would be, they were haunted. Had this dead EAL F/E who kept appearing in the airplane.

 

[freightdogfred]

L-1011=Late 10 out of 11 times... (Actually, it's because it's got 10 tires, and 11 hydraulic pumps)

As a freighter, it cannot compare to the Douglas equivalent, the DC-10-30 for range, payload and reliability. Most guys who flew said it was one of the sweetest flying machines they ever flew. My buddy at Arrow Air flys the DC-10 now cause Arrow got rid of all their L-1011's, and says he prefers the way the DC-10 handles.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Another reason would be, they were haunted. Had this dead EAL F/E who kept appearing in the airplane.

The ghost of Ernest Borgnine?

 

[pilotyip]

Yea Ernie played Don Repo in the made for TV movie, based upon the book "The Ghost of Flight 401"

 

[L-1011-500]

ATA bought 5 -500 from Royal Jordanian and they were regular airplanes in passenger service with them. No marble floors or gold furnishings. I know as I flew them right up till a couple years ago. The airplane was a dream to fly and if you had MX people who knew how to work on them then they made money for you. If you were just going to defer everything and not spend money to fix them the airplane went south on you really quick.

 

[HA25]

Didn't you hear? Boeing is firing up the DC-10 production line again for FedEx!

Bet if they did (or at least MD-11) fire it up, they'd sell more of them, than just about any other wide body Freighter.. You try to find a good MD11 for sale these days.. next to impossible.

 

[Sir Innocenti]

Simple: Wiring......Its the same wiring Airbus foolishly chose to install on the A380.....Its lighter than conventional wiring, but extremely brittle.....Typical Lockheed, WAY ahead of its time, and willing to use advanced technology.....Too bad they discovered the unreliability of this wiring AFTER the L-1011's were built!!!

 

[hawkerjet]

The 1011 came to the market first and was successful, however, not having another engine selection would soon prove to be it's downfall.
As the 1011 enjoyed time in service with the airlines McDonnell Douglas pushed its DC-10 thru the certification process. Considering the huge political clout California weilded ( and did) they helped speed up the process and forced the DC-10 to market prematurely. There were several DC-10 accidents world wide and caused the fleet to be grounded. The defects were found ( had to do with aft pressure bulkhead I believe) and fixed and the 10 came to the market. Timing is everything as is a little help from your friends.

 

[PlaneDrvr]

The 1011 came to the market first and was successful, however, not having another engine selection would soon prove to be it's downfall.
As the 1011 enjoyed time in service with the airlines McDonnell Douglas pushed its DC-10 thru the certification process. Considering the huge political clout California weilded ( and did) they helped speed up the process and forced the DC-10 to market prematurely. There were several DC-10 accidents world wide and caused the fleet to be grounded. The defects were found ( had to do with aft pressure bulkhead I believe) and fixed and the 10 came to the market. Timing is everything as is a little help from your friends.

Not the 'aft pressure bulkhead' but the main floor support beams were too weak. Most notable early accident involved a European charter airline (I believe it was Spanair); a lower cargo door came open (or came off), the resulting loss of pressurization sucked the main floor down, causing it to give way, and the a/c broke up inflight. I believe this was the accident that revealed the flaw in the construction the the a/c and resulted in the fix, but there may have been other incidents/accidents.

As I remember, that was the history, but I guess someone will correct me if I am wrong.

DA

 

[Spooky 2]

Not the 'aft pressure bulkhead' but the main floor support beams were too weak. Most notable early accident involved a European charter airline (I believe it was Spanair); a lower cargo door came open (or came off), the resulting loss of pressurization sucked the main floor down, causing it to give way, and the a/c broke up inflight. I believe this was the accident that revealed the flaw in the construction the the a/c and resulted in the fix, but there may have been other incidents/accidents.

As I remember, that was the history, but I guess someone will correct me if I am wrong.

DA

Turkish DC10 that had departed Paris. Rear bulk bin door seperated from the aircraft because it was closed improperly, thus causing the decompression and subsequent floor beam failure.

 

[PlaneDrvr]

Turkish DC10 that had departed Paris. Rear bulk bin door seperated from the aircraft because it was closed improperly, thus causing the decompression and subsequent floor beam failure.

I remember now, you are correct, it was a Turkish DC-10, thanks for the correction on that part. I think I got everything else right, so at least I was close.

DA

 

[HA25]

there there was an identical situation to the Souix City crash of the UAL DC-10 back in 1972 where the rear floor gave and severed all 3 main hydraulics.. but they used the 3-engines to control the a/c and brought it in to land safely. The captain's name I recall was Bryce McCormic. That one wrote the book for engine power as a control and gave the UAL guys something to work with, even though they didn't have the benefit of a #2 engine.

 

[Spooky 2]

there there was an identical situation to the Souix City crash of the UAL DC-10 back in 1972 where the rear floor gave and severed all 3 main hydraulics.. but they used the 3-engines to control the a/c and brought it in to land safely. The captain's name I recall was Bryce McCormic. That one wrote the book for engine power as a control and gave the UAL guys something to work with, even though they didn't have the benefit of a #2 engine.

An outcome of the Turkish DC10 crash was a total re-evaluation of the decompression characteristics of all widebody aircraft of that time including the DC10, L1011 and B747. I think there was an AD that required significant structural changes in the floor designs on each of these aircraft albeit the DC10 to the brunt of this issue.

 

[Spooky 2]

I'd say that any airplane that could do a CAT III autoland with an engine out in 1972 is pretty dammed awesome in my book. My uncle flew it for the last 10 years of his career at Eastern in the 70's. He said it was only second to the Connie in his book. Of course he had a love for anything Lockheed, he was a P-38 driver in the war.

I would imagine if it wasn't for the RB211 basically bankrupting RR, and causing delays, the L-1011 would have had much more of a succesfull career.

It's interesting that most L1011's were delivered with anolog autopilots, but a few at the end of the line, most notibly the -500 came with the new fangled digital autopilot which was not certified for EO autolands. Go figure. Some -500 had the anolog AP while others had the digital ones. Made for interesting below landing miniums takeoff alternate selections.

 

[Sonic Cruzer]

There was a spoiler design system that allowed the aircraft to stay on the glideslope without having to pitch the aircraft's nose up/down.

Sounds like a 777.

 

[GogglesPisano]

there there was an identical situation to the Souix City crash of the UAL DC-10 back in 1972 where the rear floor gave and severed all 3 main hydraulics.. .

This accident had nothing to do with cargo doors. The #2 engine fan blew and severed the hydraulics.

 

[Spooky 2]

This accident had nothing to do with cargo doors. The #2 engine fan blew and severed the hydraulics.

Goggles, I think he was referring to another incident that occured prior to the SF UAL DC10 accident. I seem to recall it happening but can't remember the details.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Goggles, I think he was referring to another incident that occured prior to the SF UAL DC10 accident. I seem to recall it happening but can't remember the details.

Sorry V70T5, I read your post too quickly. There was an AA DC10 incident over Windsor in 1972. The cargo door, in fact, failed, and took out the hydraulics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_96

(imagine, a DC10 on a 'commuter' flight from DTW to BUF.)

 

[FearlessFreep]

When it was first being launched he L1011 nearly killed Rolls Royce & Lockheed. I remember seeing magazine covers & articles covering the event.

I have never flown the aircraft, but have talked to a number of people that have.

DLC - stands for "Direct Lift Control", from my understanding this would raise the spoilers to keep you on the glideslope without changing your pitch angle. Talking to some people I seem to remember some of then saying that it would land with a very high nose angle.

I did fly a Delta L1011 sim, the 1011 has an interesting trim switch in the yoke, basically it is a little trim wheel that you can select whatever trim you want. Pretty nice idea. I do remember seeing some indications of the DLC operation, but I cannot remember specifically what it was.

A maintenance person that I talked to said that one of the reasons that the L1011 is not in widespread use is that maintenance is very difficult because it is modularized - meaning that there are specific electronic chassis that need to be pulled and replaced from that aircraft. As such each chassis requires specific and specialized maintenance equipment to be overhauled. This was supposedly a holdover from many of the military aircraft that Lockheed had built and this design concept did not work well for smaller operators and I am sure that all the testing & maintenance equipment would be disappearing at this point in time.