King Air SIC

[4321]

Question for all of you king air pilots out there, how is it possible for a pilot to sit right seat in a king air and log SIC time? I thought that the king Air was considered a single pilot airplane. I know lots of Charter oprations want SIC's in there King Airs any explanation's. Thanks

 

[mike1mc]

You can log the time as SIC if you have taken a Part 135 checkride (have a current 8410) and have undergone the operator's training program and you are required. For passenger-carrying operations under 135 you are not required to have an SIC unless operating under IFR. Even then you can be authorized to use an approved autopilot in leiu of an SIC. If the aircraft has no autopilot or the captain doesn't have a current authorization, then the SIC is required. In this case the SIC is a required crewmember and must also meet the instrument currency requirements of Part 61. There is discussion on whether or not you can log SIC just because the captain opts not to use the autopilot (and I'd like to hear some responses to this). The regs do not state the captain must USE the autopilot, just that it be approved, available, and authorized for use. Comments?

It seems a LOT of people take advantage of this and just log all the time they are sitting right seat as SIC. Doesn't seem right to me, but that's me. Hope this helps somewhat and didn't make things even more confusing!

 

[ultrarunner]

Operating rule or operating certificate defines the requirements for an SIC.

For example:

Lets take your King Air. And I'm not talking a 300 or 350.... If the PIC is operating under a 'single pilot/autopilot' authorization for the certificate holder, and the airplane meets the equipment requirement (i.e. operating autopilot) then the particular flight being conducted does not require and SIC. With this example, it would be difficult to argue how someone could log SIC time.

If the PIC does not have the "autopilot authorized in liew of second in command" endorsement on his 135 paperwork, then the operator is required to operate the flight in accordance with the 135 SIC requirement. The SIC must meet the 135.293 requirements, and as such can log SIC time.

KA 300's and 350's are a bit different. If I recall, they are type-certificated for two pilots, and to be operated single-pilot the PIC is required a specific SP check in that particular type. However, unless I'm mistaken, the FAA hasn't signed off on operating a Part 25 aircraft 135 with a single pilot, so this would not apply here.

I suspect you're talking about King Air 90's 100's and 200's.

It's been a few years since I've done 135 in King Air's, so If I'm a little fuzzy someone please correct me.

If you have acess to the 135 regs, take a peek in there. It explains it farily well.

 

[ultrarunner]

You can log the time as SIC if you have taken a Part 135 checkride (have a current 8410) and have undergone the operator's training program.

Even in the captain has the Single Pilot/Autopilot Authorization, and the airplane meets the autopilot requirement?

Interesting......

 

[Rick1128]

The explainations I have recieved from FAA Legal is that even if the 135 operator has single pilot authority in its OpSpecs, it it elects to assign a pilot as SIC, that pilot may log that time as SIC. Their opinion is that when the operator assigns an SIC it is no longer a single pilot airplane.

 

[ultrarunner]

Well, I stand corrected. That's a good thing, IMO. Takes out most of the ambiguity for those folks that choose to assing a full-time or part-time 135 qual. SIC in logging that time.

 

[mike1mc]

The explainations I have recieved from FAA Legal is that even if the 135 operator has single pilot authority in its OpSpecs, it it elects to assign a pilot as SIC, that pilot may log that time as SIC. Their opinion is that when the operator assigns an SIC it is no longer a single pilot airplane.

This is how I have read the regs also. §135.105 states that "unless two pilots are required by this chapter for operations under VFR [ten or more passenger seats, or CAT II ops], a person MAY operate an aircraft without a second-in-command, if it is equipped with an operative approved autopilot system......


Doesn't say taht the operator MUST use the autopilot.

 

[Kingairrick]

My POI agrees with the interpretation that Rick1128 gave....Question is: will the interview board?

 

[slickmagneto]

SIC TIME

I know of three pilots who were going for an ATP checkride that had their flight time recalculated by the FAA for having SIC time in a KingAir.

 

[mike1mc]

Re: SIC TIME

I know of three pilots who were going for an ATP checkride that had their flight time recalculated by the FAA for having SIC time in a KingAir.

Were they flying Part 135 or 91? If it was 91, then I understand and agree, 135 is a different story.