King Air 200 FO or Merlin SW4 FO???

[Capt. Gab]

Hi guys.

I'm new here but I'd like to get some educated opinions from you all if you can help me make my decision. I'm gonna be able to choose either of these 2 birds (King Air BE200 or Metroliner SW4) in the near future as copilot and I'd like to know if you guys think one is better than the other.

I am not all that familiar with FAA regulations (I'm Canadian), but I believe the equivalent to you is part 135. The company is a nice charter/scheduled operation and they've been in business for 7-8 years and are doing well. Really friendly folks, and as far as I can tell, both planes fly the same amount of time year round.

Since they're both turboprop, anyone of the two better than the other? Anything else I should take into account? BTW both fly with 2-pilot crews. Reason I'm asking in part is because they have 2 Metroliners (one in maintenance for some time now) and 1 King Air, but I've checked accross Canada and if anything were to happen to that company, there are far more King Airs then Metroliners, so I guess right now I'm leaning towards the BE200.

Any help would be appreciated!

 

[Rick1128]

Having flown both a/c, I would have to look a several things. The mx bird, what is it down for? That might be an indicator of a mx issue within the type fleet. Is the pay the same or different? What are the normal trips for each type? Look at the whole picture.

Now, while there are more KA's in Canada than SA227's, the Metro has an industry reputation of being a squirrily aircraft. It really is not, but it is demanding. You have to fly it much like a jet. It is a numbers aircraft. I have checked many people out in Lears from Metros and they have very little difficulty in transitioning. In fact most of them thought the Lear was easier to fly. It is a respectable aircraft to have on your resume.

 

[NEWSOUTH]

Look boys

You can't log the KA 200 as sic. The metro you can. I don't understand why there is any question. In the metro you continue to build quality time. In the KA you pencil whip your logbook and any one will be able to tell it. You can't log PIC in the right seat of a KA flying 135 with out smiling.

 

[cvsfly]

If you are 135 trained and qualified, you certainly can log SIC on 135 legs in the KA200 whether there is an Ops Spec A015 (autopilot in lieu of SIC) or not. You just can't log anything as the PNF on Part 91 legs. If you see any opportunity for Part 91 dead legs, maybe you will have a chance to fly the KA200 as PIC. In the Metroliner on dead legs you would of course have to have a type rating to fly as PIC, but you may log SIC on Part 91 legs as well.

 

[Rick1128]

Think you guys missed something. The original poster is in Canada. And the rules though similar, are different in Canada. They are not the 51st through 59th states, though some would like that. We'll let the f**** keep southern Quebec.

 

[Capt. Gab]

*sigh*

Rick, I liked your first answer better, seeing as to how I live in the province you obviously despise/look down on. Really didn't expect this on a US aviation board.

 

[NEWSOUTH]

CVSFLY

Sorry man, but that saying that my OPS specs reqire two pilots does not fly in the 121 world. I have been told by to many people. Fugettaboutit.

I know 135 ops spec that reqire a BE-58 Baron to have two pilots. Explain why you logged sic in a BE-58 the next time you interview. Good day.

 

[cvsfly]

Well I said it regardless of the Ops Spec. I don't care what your "experts" in the 121 world say. Has no bearing on this. What's the point of 135.101 or the 8410 issued to a SIC?

 

[Rick1128]

Capt Gab, Sorry if you took offense in that remark. However, to an outsider like myself, it appears that the only time Quebec acts like part of Canada, is when they want something. I fly into Quebec on a regularly enough schedule over the years that I have seen the changes in the Provience. On more than one occassion I have said to myself that I would rather fly into Mexico.

Gab it's not you or the average Quebecer. It's the diehard francophone that wants to return Quebec to a time when it was a French colony. I am not getting this just on my own. I have several good friends in the provience who are frustrated at the attitudes and changes. And the infighting.

Look at all the major Canadian companies who have left the provience.

 

[NEWSOUTH]

CVSfly

Good point about the 135.101 and 8410. I think I will stick to my guns though. If the plane does not require two pilots on certification then you can log SIC towards anything worth logging time for. The ops specs may require two pilots however, the plane does not. Therefore the time is worthless towards other ratings or total time requirement for other jobs ect..It may look good in your log book to you, but anyone else would be curious to see what else you have been logging in that thing.

 

[Rick1128]

Newsouth,

As far as the FAA is concerned, as long as the aircraft requires two pilots, either by certification or regulation, the time qualifies for higher ratings. And even if the aircraft and PIC are single pilot qualified, if the company assigns a SIC to the aircraft, then the SIC can log the time. Even on so called '91' legs. By regulation, for a pilot to be assigned as a SIC the pilot must meet all qualification and training requirements and pass a checkride.

As for an interview, if the interviewer asks about your SIC time in a Baron or some such, you show him your copy of your 8410, (you do keep them, don't you?) and that is pretty much the end of that question.

 

[NEWSOUTH]

OK, if this is factual then I stand corrected. Sounds like you know what your talking about. Thank you for correcting my shot in the dark.

 

[celloman]

I think this is a quality of hours question. I really think the question that should be asked is how this time is going to look on my resume in the future!

I don’t know how it works in Canada but in the US any one can PAY for a 402 SIC check out and log that time... The time looks VERY poor on a resume.

A person can also get a SIC check out and log the time in a king Air that is cert for single person ops. Now this time is MUCH better than pft it still does not look as good IMHO!

So I think the best bet would be for the metro, I also think the poster has the potential of learning a whole bunch from the metro. On the other hand I have also heard that the King Air and a hoot to fly..... Oh well, I can see how it would be a hard decision. Just my 2 cents.

Best of Luck!

 

[TailStall]

Cpt. Gab



Most companys in Canada fly the King Air 200 two crew, there for you will get the type rating of a BE20 on your license. You require the type rating because in Canada the BE20 is considered a high performance A/C.

The Metro also requires a type rating, which will allow you to log time from which ever A/C you choose.

I also fly for a large charter company in Canada and if you would like to private message me I would gladlly try to help you make a decision.

Good luck

 

[JetPilot500]

Re: CVSfly

Good point about the 135.101 and 8410. I think I will stick to my guns though. If the plane does not require two pilots on certification then you can log SIC towards anything worth logging time for. The ops specs may require two pilots however, the plane does not. Therefore the time is worthless towards other ratings or total time requirement for other jobs ect..It may look good in your log book to you, but anyone else would be curious to see what else you have been logging in that thing.

Ok then....A Beech 1900 is a Single Pilot Airplane. However, airline Ops Specs required it to be flown with 2 pilots. So are you saying that during an interview, the airlines will not count the SIC time in a BE-1900? There is just about no difference between a BE-1900 and BE-200 except the size. So what is the difference here?

JetPilot500

 

[501261]

Jetpilot500, great post, and I personally know 2 pilots at COEX that received their ATP and EMB-135 type ratings using SIC time on a "single pilot" aircraft. 1, seniority number about 300, has 500 hours SIC in a 1900, and another, seniority number about 800, has 300 hours SIC in a King Air 200.

In both cases the 121 airline accepted this SIC time, and more importantly, the FAA accepted this SIC time as Flight time for their 1500 required for the ATP!

 

[501261]

Tailstall,

That's interesting that Canada requires a BE-20 type!

In the states you too can get a BE20 type, but it is very, very rare. You have to be flying an old Army 200 with a certified MTOW of 14,000#'s. Rare to find and even rarer to find someone typed in it!

 

[KingAirer]

Got a question about the 91 legs....If a company is based in PHL and picking up pax in PIT and going to ACY...I think many people are considering the empty leg from PHL to PIT to be 91...But wouldnt this be 135 as well becuase they are getting paid just like they are for the pit acy because that time is considered in the quote as well....An honest ?

 

[501261]

Nope, repositioning is considered 91! However, you have to include this in your duty time and it will count towards your 14 hours.

I think what people are getting confused with are the different issues with the regs. As far as flying and Logging of Flight Time it is definately considered 91. What has happened is some unscrupulous companies have tried to maintain that since this is a 91 flight it should not count towards 135 duty time requirements.