Kalitta air flying with the 744

[kevdog]

Connie is in this world to make as much money as he can in the shortest time. He has three Dragtsers to play with among other toys.

He has and will again put a 747-100/200 in the air starting from a scrap heap in the desert for a half a million $ or less and fill it and fly it 24/7. Why would he even consider buying a 400.

Not to mention the maintenance or anything but several years ago when we flew the L-1011, Connies MX took the most beautifull clean and very low time machines and turned them to Junk in no time. Things happened that Lockheed had never believed or seen happen to a L-1011. I cant imagine what a 400 would look like in a year or two.

His upper management and screw scheduling cost him millions a year due to incompetance and that will never change therefore, that blows your theory about the training cost's, wages etc. (no insult intended).

Its Ypsi-Tucki mentality. Get it? :smash:

Thanks for the info, but I was referring to why a company like Martinair would sell their 200's and 300's for 400's. If you look at an earlier post, I said Kalitta would have 400's by 2050.

 

[Hawker rider]

It beats me why somebody would get rid of their classics and get 400's in place if only it is for the outside world to think that it is getting a "newer fleet"

For the company Martinair is getting 400's that are quite a bit older than the classics that they are flying now. The only advantages are a better fuelconsumption and no Flight engineer to be employed. Over there the FE's median salary is pretty high, and it is not uncommon for an FE to make well in the 100.000 Euro-plus range.

As far as payload capacity goes, that will not increase very much. So that's a mute point. Noise? the classics are stage3 so they will see still a bit of life left in them, even in the noise sensitive airports.

If any company would truly look to a better type as replacement for the 747 classic freighter they wil NOT even look at the old passenger 400's that will be convert to freight machines. There are a lot better options out there. For instance the 777-freighter that will come into the market soon enough. That will be a step forward.

 

[bombinha]

Anywhere else but in USA the higest factor on operational costs it's fuel. So any penny they can save on that, they will try.
Here in USA salaries are the highest factor on operational cost due our pay scale going up every year and subisidized fuel. So, with low salaries they virtually fly anything here and that includes some even older than classics like, DC6's or even Otter's or how knows what's out there.

 

[iaflyer]

My guess would be for heavier lift, more reliability, more efficiency, and less money spent on training/crewing. I know the latter doesn't seem like much, but it really does. Most 747 classics crew at least 4-6 crews per plane. Figure in a low $40,000 salary x 6 ($240,000), initial and recurrent training costs, benefits, payroll taxes, etc. and it might save a company half a million per plane a year. If the contracts are there it makes sense. Look at Atlas, Cargolux, etc.

I think one of your last statements is the real reason the Martinaire would be buying -400s: If the contracts are there. If Connie got a contract that made economical sense to buy -400s, he's buy -400s. He doesn't do anything that doesn't make him money (apparently a unique idea in the airline world - making a profit!).

As for crew costs, the -400 would not be that much different. You still need 4-6 crews per aircraft. Yes, the -400 doesn't have an engineer, but under the rules we operate under (FAR 121 Supplemental), a Classic crew can do 12 hours of flight time while a -400 crew is limited to 8 hours of flight time. So it's either more crew swaps or carrying heavy/double crew.

As other stated, it doesn't hold a lot more freight or do anything a classic can't. MX reliability would be higher for a newer airplane (generally) or for one under warranty. A guy from place that flies both (Polar or Atlas) probably could say more about this).

For the price of a -400, Connie can buy a lot of classics and make almost as much money.

 

[bombinha]

I think one of your last statements is the real reason the Martinaire would be buying -400s: If the contracts are there. If Connie got a contract that made economical sense to buy -400s, he's buy -400s. He doesn't do anything that doesn't make him money (apparently a unique idea in the airline world - making a profit!).

As for crew costs, the -400 would not be that much different. You still need 4-6 crews per aircraft. Yes, the -400 doesn't have an engineer, but under the rules we operate under (FAR 121 Supplemental), a Classic crew can do 12 hours of flight time while a -400 crew is limited to 8 hours of flight time. So it's either more crew swaps or carrying heavy/double crew.

As other stated, it doesn't hold a lot more freight or do anything a classic can't. MX reliability would be higher for a newer airplane (generally) or for one under warranty. A guy from place that flies both (Polar or Atlas) probably could say more about this).

For the price of a -400, Connie can buy a lot of classics and make almost as much money.

Actually more money. As for the price of a -400 Con nie can buy at least 10 -200 in good shape already considering the upgrades for RVSM etc...
So instead of 1 new client he can get 10 more new costumers at least and have also more spare planes case something goes wrong or last minute contract. Also more planes can bring the price down due otimization of use having planes parked in diferent locations.
And like was mention above the -400 don't carry any more lift than a almighty -200.
-400 only can fly longer, but by regs, that only happen with more pilots.

 

[Zoneload]

B747-200F AMS-DTW 230000 Tech stop YQX.
B747-400F AMS-DTW 260000 no Tech Stop!!

Just a little bit of a difference..

 

[Menno Mulder]

a Classic crew can do 12 hours of flight time while a -400 crew is limited to 8 hours of flight time.

I didn't knew that. Thanks for all those interesting anwsers, THANKS!

See you, Menno

 

[bombinha]

B747-200F AMS-DTW 230000 Tech stop YQX.
B747-400F AMS-DTW 260000 no Tech Stop!!

Just a little bit of a difference..

What 200F are you talking about the 800, 820, or 833 MTGW?
of course you know there are all those, right?

 

[Zoneload]

747-200F 833000 GE powered I can't come up with the tail #. And I know there are several take off wts for these typs. Also the flight was in JAN so there were strong winds. But you can put up to 270000 on a -400F and I think the converted pax -400's will take up to 255000 but I have to look into that. I do understand that the price on these jets is high.Far better to pick up some -200's at a better price.

 

[Whale Rider]

747-200F 833000 GE powered I can't come up with the tail #. And I know there are several take off wts for these typs. Also the flight was in JAN so there were strong winds. But you can put up to 270000 on a -400F and I think the converted pax -400's will take up to 255000 but I have to look into that. I do understand that the price on these jets is high.Far better to pick up some -200's at a better price.

Polar pays $800,000 a month on lease payments for [Each] of its -400's. Those -400's were brand new from the factory.

 

[Zoneload]

So you have to make about $26,500 per day to pay the note on the plane, or about 4 HKG trips. Now if I could get the powers to be at my place to understand that.

 

[GittinFatter]

Conrad will only get -400's if they are a really good deal or he is requested to do so by Ned Walace. We have very few trips and/routes that the -400 will be of benefit. Depending on the plane, the Zero fuel weight will be the real determining factor. The -400 only carries about 25,000 lbs. more cargo, but the extra fuel weight gives it the longer range needed to go 12 hours with a full load.
Most of our trips are doable with a good -200. Most are under 8 hours, thus able for 2 folks instead of three if we had a -400. but, what about the next leg, is it over 8 hours? oops, we would need 3 guys, but only have 2 sittin here. Yea, you got it right, Mark Ryan is incapable of scheduling. It would fall apart in 1 week.
Anyway, as i sit here in Oscoda, one of our Inspectors told me that Connie is indeed looking at 4, -400 pax birds for a conversion. They would be needed if we got some regular long haul routes from southeast asia to most anywhere in the west. Remember, they would have to be cheap, cheap, cheap. How many -400's are sitting in the desert????? just waiting??
I think we'll see them, but not anytime soon. We all have opinions!

Oh, and trust me, no one wants to see that guy run around naked on the ramp, maybe after a few grogs, but it would still be ugly!

 

[Junkflyer]

You're right about scheduling, they can't even keep up with one type of airplane. The 400's would be nice since some old would guys would move over making room on the classic seniority list. Then again, these rumors float around every year and nothing ever materializes.