/K or /L

[AJL5236]

I'm flying a Beechjet and constantly have a discussion on what to put in the suffix code. The aircraft is RVSM cerified and it's equipped with an FMS with DME/DME updating. It also has a GPS, however we are unable to do Type B arrivals and departures (RNP stars and dps). Would you use /K or /L? Thanks

Suffix​

Equipment Capability​

​

NO DME

/X ​

No transponder

/T ​

Transponder with no Mode C

/U ​

Transponder with Mode C

​

DME

/D ​

No transponder

/B ​

Transponder with no Mode C

/A ​

Transponder with Mode C

​

TACAN ONLY

/M ​

No transponder

/N ​

Transponder with no Mode C

/P ​

Transponder with Mode C

​

AREA NAVIGATION (RNAV)

/Y ​

LORAN, VOR/DME, or INS with no transponder

/C ​

LORAN, VOR/DME, or INS, transponder with no Mode C

/I ​

LORAN, VOR/DME, or INS, transponder with Mode C

​

ADVANCED RNAV WITH TRANSPONDER AND MODE C (If an aircraft is unable to operate with a transponder and/or Mode C, it will revert to the appropriate code listed above under Area Navigation.)

/E ​

Flight Management System (FMS) with DME/DME and IRU position updating

/F ​

Flight Management System (FMS) with DME/DME position updating

/G ​

Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS), including GPS or WAAS, with enroute and terminal capability.

/R ​

Required Navigational Performance. The aircraft meets the RNP type prescribed for the route segment(s), route(s) and/or area concerned.

​

Reduced Vertical Separation Minimum (RVSM). Prior to conducting RVSM operations within the U.S., the operator must obtain authorization from the FAA or from the responsible authority, as appropriate.

/J​

/E with RVSM

/K​

/F with RVSM

/L​

/G with RVSM

/Q ​

/R with RVSM

/W ​

RVSM

 

[Extrascorp]

I would use /L

my 0.02...

 

[Hemispheres]

I used to fly an Excel and we were advised to use /L. The local FSDO advised of this when we purchased the A.C. I am still uncertain as to how they became involved with how we filed our flight plans.

 

[Propnose]

In the Dornier we have the same setup as you do in the beechjet and when flying domestic flights we use /K and when going into Mexico we have been using /Q.

 

[FL420]

I'm flying a Beechjet and constantly have a discussion on what to put in the suffix code. The aircraft is RVSM cerified and it's equipped with an FMS with DME/DME updating. It also has a GPS.....

I'm confused, and no, it's not the first time.

You say your Beechjet has an FMS with DME/DME updating. No mention of 1, 2 or 3 IRU's providing position information to the FMS.

All the FMSs I am familiar with contain two databases. One is a performance database and the other is a navigation database. Without position information from some type of navigational unit, IRS and GPS being the two most commonly used, the FMSs I am familiar with can't navigate their way out of a paper bag. So when you say your FMS has DME/DME updating, what is it updating?

You mention your Beechjet has GPS also. Does that mean it is a panel mount and doesn't provide position information to the navigation database of the FMS? My limited experience with FMS is with the Honeywell units in the A320 and the B757. No experience with FMS in bizjets but I need to learn.

Just trying to understand here.

 

[SabreFlyR]

I'm confused, and no, it's not the first time.

You say your Beechjet has an FMS with DME/DME updating. No mention of 1, 2 or 3 IRU's providing position information to the FMS.

All the FMSs I am familiar with contain two databases. One is a performance database and the other is a navigation database. Without position information from some type of navigational unit, IRS and GPS being the two most commonly used, the FMSs I am familiar with can't navigate their way out of a paper bag. So when you say your FMS has DME/DME updating, what is it updating?

You mention your Beechjet has GPS also. Does that mean it is a panel mount and doesn't provide position information to the navigation database of the FMS? My limited experience with FMS is with the Honeywell units in the A320 and the B757. No experience with FMS in bizjets but I need to learn.

Just trying to understand here.

Like the IRU's that are providing position info to the FMS's you use, the Beechjet set up uses a combination of DME signals to navigate. We also have a gps receiver (s) providing navigation info to the FMS's.

 

[mike1mc]

When AC 90-100 came out the FAA advised that unless your FMS was on the "certified" list for Type-A and Tpye-B RNAV SID/STARS, you should file as /G (or /L if RVSM). We use this for all our turbojets (even one that has an IRU but hasn't been listed as certified). When lfying international, we have two aircraft hat are certified as RNP-XX so we use /Q for Int'l. I don't think there is any clear answer to your question. The is still making a final determination on FMS type regarding RNAV SID/STARS.

 

[AJL5236]

thanks

Thanks for the info, I'll check out the AC as well...

 

[flyboyike]

Without position information from some type of navigational unit, IRS and GPS being the two most commonly used, the FMSs I am familiar with can't navigate their way out of a paper bag. So when you say your FMS has DME/DME updating, what is it updating?

What it's updating is its own position based on DME distance from up to 6 VORTACs at a time. So, for instance, if it sees that it sees that it's 8 DME from XYZ, 4 DME from ZZQ, 15 DME from ABC, 20 DME from DEF etc, it knows exactly where it is without an IRU or GPS input. It's constantly switching the VORs it's tracking to figure out its position. That's what the autotune function is for. The FMS in our airplane has both DME/DME updating and GPS input for added redundancy.

 

[Canucit]

use L if in rvsm airspace