K & $ 737 type

[AnimalTale]

I have a concern,

My best friend, a military grad, received his 737 type from K&$ not too long ago.

First problem: During his class, the 737 "classic" sim was suddenly BUSTED, so the K & $ clowns, had a "SOLUTION". For an extra $300 bucks the students can "upgrade" their training to all glass. My friend and his class mates felt obligated to pony up the extra 300 bucks because they did not want to be "black listed" from SWA or burn any bridges for contesting the change or "up-charge" for K & $ sim malfunction. To me K & $ should not have charged EXTRA for the SUDDEN change in sim.

Second Problem: After paying about 9000 dollars for the type (granted the VA helps pay for the type, but extremely expensive), my friend was asked by K&$ to pass out flyers for their type rating class. WTF, I was livid when I heard this. I told my bud to tell K&$ to "shove it" or pay him $2000 for advertising. He told me he would but again he did not want to burn any bridges with K&$ and he felt obligated to help them, even if he did not want to.

I believe this kind of thing should stop. These companies should stop exploiting these poor airline hopefuls. Man, what has this airline industry become?


CYA

 

[Beetle007]

This industry needs to be fixed from the bottom up. When you have flight instructors making less than a high school dropout working as waiter, how do you expect people to respect pilots or the profession. Then when that flight instructor earns enough hours to work at an "airline", their starting pay is in the low to mid 20s. Even school teachers start in the mid 40s (at least in Texas).

I would love to see ALPA (or some other union) unionize the flight instructor profession with a grass roots effort. I know that Embry Riddle is union, but I think most flight schools are not. And, when your competition is non-union, it really puts the unionized flight schools at a disadvantage during negotiations. I don't think flight instructors would even have to deal with the railway labor act either. Flight instructors can't make a real living and that is just wrong.

If flight schools had to raise their wages/work rules, I think you would see a higher barrier to entrance in this industry (e.g., it would cost more to obtain flight training). Higher barriers to entrance would mean higher pay for everyone in the industry. You would also see flight instructors less willing to go work for some crappy regional paying less than they could make as a flight instructor. This is my dream, and it will never come true =(

And by the way, thank you Frontier for outsourcing more of your flying to protect your wages at the expense of those below you.

 

[AnimalTale]

And by the way, thank you Frontier for outsourcing more of your flying to protect your wages at the expense of those below you.

I agree! But first we shall thank all the other airlines too! And while we are at it we shall thank the people who take these jobs! Some pay for types, others pay for training and others pay with their lives (military) in pursuit of greener pasteurs! It happens in every industry! If people did not take these substandard jobs, they would not exist.

Lets get back to the point, my original point was about K & $ exploiting and using their "assumed" influence to:

1) sucker type students into paying 300 more dollars for an unneeded and unwanted upgrade.

2) solicate their students into passing out adverising pamplets---> without paying them or giving them a break on their already EXPENSIVE type services....


This is my point! We can start another thread on your UNION ideas and Airline thankings...

CYA

 

[learflyer]

How long do you think 737 schools like this will be around? SWA is their bread and butter. SWA can't keep hiring for ever right?

 

[Bako Cap]

It is a sham, but it is his own fault for trying to buy an interview or job. He should suck it up, he will make it up in a year or two, if he gets hired. If not then he can write it off on his taxes.

 

[NewmanF16]

Well, I thought K&S was a top notch school. They didn't cut any corners and were pretty organized. The course was $7500 for the 300 sim. I doubt it's gone up much in a year.

As far as your K&S bashing, grow up. Every school I ever been too asks for referrals--word of mouth is the best form of advertising. If he doesn't want to do it, then so be it, you don't need to wine about it for him.

As far as paying extra for the 300 sim, K&S leases that sim from a different operator (US Air) and it costs more. It's money well spent, IMO, for many reasons, most importantly reliability, secondly the SA the glass gives you. In the big scheme of things it's pennies. I'm sure he could have waited around for the other sim or asked for his money back. Why complain that another option was offered to complete on time? I've heard of other schools that had to reschedule training because they only had one sim.

I personally hate guys that second hand bash companies they have no experience with. You "buddy" wasn't forced to do anything, made his own choices, and wasn't defrauded out of anything. I'll bet he even left with the type rating he went for.

 

[AnimalTale]

As far as your K&S bashing, grow up. Every school I ever been too asks for referrals--word of mouth is the best form of advertising. If he doesn't want to do it, then so be it, you don't need to wine about it for him.

As far as paying extra for the 300 sim, K&S leases that sim from a different operator (US Air) and it costs more. It's money well spent, IMO, for many reasons, most importantly reliability, secondly the SA the glass gives you. In the big scheme of things it's pennies. I'm sure he could have waited around for the other sim or asked for his money back. Why complain that another option was offered to complete on time? I've heard of other schools that had to reschedule training because they only had one sim.

I personally hate guys that second hand bash companies they have no experience with. You "buddy" wasn't forced to do anything, made his own choices, and wasn't defrauded out of anything. I'll bet he even left with the type rating he went for.

The airlines teach you to use glass and your airmanship and instruments will aid you in SA! What you need to be trained on is how not to be such a NIEVE KOOL-AID DRINKING SUCKER (What? you think 7.5K IS PENNIES? You are probably the guy in the crew room that says we are paid a lot)! Go ahead and pay the extra amount FOR GLASS and go ahead and be a GOPHER (PASS OUT FLYERS), help them make more money while they make A MINIMUM OF 60 % profit on your type. Enjoy.

You are truly a MANGEMENT DREAM! Go have fun being taken advantage of and PLEASE do apply for the next management position, but first learn how to spell! ALSO dont learn to HATE SO FAST, IDIOT! I am on your side!

CYA

 

[The Transporter]

Newman!. .

 

[Jet41]

The last time I check K&S was ~$7400 using the glass sim, however if the sim did break down the extra $$ should have never been asked for, and the glass sim should have been a freebe. Should have gone to Higher Power

 

[StandBy1]

.....

 

[StandBy1]

The airlines teach you to use glass and your airmanship and instruments will aid you in SA! What you need to be trained on is how not to be such a NIEVE KOOL-AID DRINKING SUCKER (What? you think 7.5K IS PENNIES? You are probably the guy in the crew room that says we are paid a lot)! Go ahead and pay the extra amount FOR GLASS and go ahead and be a GOPHER (PASS OUT FLYERS), help them make more money while they make A MINIMUM OF 60 % profit on your type. Enjoy.

You are truly a MANGEMENT DREAM! Go have fun being taken advantage of and PLEASE do apply for the next management position, but first learn how to spell! ALSO dont learn to HATE SO FAST, IDIOT! I am on your side!

CYA

I gotta agree with Newman for the most part. K$S was a great experience. I was more than happy to let other people know it with referrals. As for the pennies I think he was referring to the $300 which IS peanuts on top of the supposed $9000 you said he was charged. Hell that's a easy to drop on a good night of strippers and booze at the Goldclub. I'm not sure why your friend would be worried about being blacklisted. K&S runs a business. They compete pretty hard with higher power and any kind of bad press would hurt them. Also not sure why you're up on the soapbox for your friend. Not every one can have a great experience every time. Life just isn't that kind. I could possibly understand the diatribe if it were you but........

 

[skyfliers]

I gotta agree with Newman too. K&S was a fantastic experience and who ever says negative stuff about them was probably paid to do so..... My buddy went there last month and paid only $7250 for the glass cockpit type compare that to HP or others who ask more for an old 200 type!!!!!!!!

 

[Jet41]

No such thing as a 200 type. Having said that HP is a class act, have heard the same about K&S.

 

[52560]

It is a sham, but it is his own fault for trying to buy an interview or job. He should suck it up, he will make it up in a year or two, if he gets hired. If not then he can write it off on his taxes.

To change the subject slightly...but I am so tired of hearing about this kind of stuff being a tax write-off. How many ppl out there think that if it is a tax write off that the government gives you back all the money you spent? Example, someone pays $9000 for a type, do you think that the gov. will give you $9000 back at the end of the year for this expense?

 

[pilotyip]

Low Pay?

This industry needs to be fixed from the bottom up. When you have flight instructors making less than a high school dropout working as waiter

I was $27/hr as a contract CFI, no taxes taken out, isn't that more than hihg school drop out waiter?

 

[pilotyip]

Strange here we have a thread about a SIM place charging too much money, interlaced with a rant about companies not paying instrcutors enought. There is a balnce here, a certain amount of money has to come in, inorder for a certain amount of money to go out. It appears that some don't like the reality of that cash flow.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

I was $27/hr as a contract CFI, no taxes taken out, isn't that more than hihg school drop out waiter?

But how many hours a month could/did you bill? I doubt it was the 40 hours a week/160 hours a month that a waiter does plus the tips.

It is a shame that we have professional pilots making chicked feed wages at our airlines. I am surprised that anyone would try to defend the wages our CFIs make, which is even less in many cases.

 

[pilotyip]

Hgih School Drop out?

But how many hours a month could/did you bill? I doubt it was the 40 hours a week/160 hours a month that a waiter does plus the tips.

It is a shame that we have professional pilots making chicked feed wages at our airlines. I am surprised that anyone would try to defend the wages our CFIs make, which is even less in many cases.

I did not defend $27/hr as a high wage, I compared it to a hgih school drop out waiter. BTW pilots are among the highest paid professions in the /united States. $100K is very doable after 10 years if you make the moves and take the next job. 100K is in the upper 15% of all US wage earners. And to think you can do this without a college degree.

 

[Jet41]

And what do any of the last five posts, even remotely have to do with the post topic?