Just wondering how the Columbia Kallitta boys are doing?

[waka]

Many accidents/incidents (such as the AA wake turbulence aggressive rudder swap to structural failure) would not have occurred if the pilot was more educated in structures and aerodynamics.


BBB

Sorry, I have to be frank. What a stupid observation! Back in my instructing days, I had a few students that were aerospace engineers and they were the worst students when it came to actually flying the airplane. What was funny is when they tried to tell me their pet theories about how to fly.

 

[noperf]

BBB,

I'm sorry to perpetuate thread drift but....

I remember upset training prior to the AA Airbus incident and after. Prior to was in response to the USair 737 crash at PIT which was an emphasis on being very agressive and let the load limiters do their thang. After AA....well uh don't do this, and uh, we'll ammend the limitations section to include that whole don't be to aggresive bit. I didn't go to college but I've been to about 30 years worth of initial, upgrade, and recurrent classes. And even I picked up on that 180 on upset recovery theory. Anyone remeber "corner speeds" etc. Oh well. Let's not admit to a possible rudder control unit fault or a possible deficiency in composite material structural failure analysis. Heaven forbid that the collge boys at Boeing, Airbus or the certification branches could be wrong just blame the f%^*ing pilots . Like I stated I didn't go to college so before anyone starts to criticize my spelling, syntax, or puncuation just rember that where I greww up one was considered a senior if you made it to fifth grade.

 

[freightdogfred]

So there

Not one to split hairs, but ya spelt "Colombia" wrong too. Guess all the college grad aero engineers were so busy with the flyin machine they missed it.

 

[avbug]

Big beer belly should probably do a little more research beyond his couch, and the internet, in particular regarding the airbus structural separation.

The problem was not aggressive operation of the rudder, but the reversal of the controls coupled with their deflection. Aggression represents an emotional input; the problem was the reversal of input and the magnitude thereof. The manufacturer, with considerable test and engineering data available to establish the operating parameters of it's product (and considerable computer laws to establish just what the pilot can't do with the product), did not provide any indication or direction that this eventuality was possible or likely at sub-design limiting speeds.

Airbus through it's laws, and Boeing through equipment such as ratio changers, strive to prevent overcontrol or excessive control deflection. You will not find any place in the training for that airplane which directed the pilots to avoid large pedal movements or deflections during low speed flight.

It would seem that whereas the ample intellectual educated sea of degrees which formed the wealth of pedigreed knowledge which designed and built the airplane, oversaw it's certification, crafted and administered the training, and who flew it for years did no better than poor uneducated pilot who died while discovering that oversight.

Incidentally...do you know what level of education was held by the deceased flight crewmembers? Have you made effort to determine their education level?

Then again, would a doctorate have made an iota of difference in operating an airplane in accordance with the training received, the manufacturer policies and procedures established, and the laws built into the airframe and the logic thereof? No, it would not, hence the sheer absurdity and utter ignorance of your statements.

More glaring than the ignorant nature of your comments, however, is that you elected to inject them into a thread enquiring about the welfare of pilots and crew who have recently been subject to a miracle of survival, and whom have suffered significant personal injury. The intent of this thread was concern for their welfare and well being, not your inaccurate, unfortuanate, and poorly informed political rant regarding subjects for which you have little understanding, and apparently, insight.

What you have managed to not only embarass yourself and offend others, but to destroy whatever credibility you might have had before you started. Congratulations.

 

[unwashed]

More surgeries for some and the rest of the crew I think are doing well, considering. I have a degree in History, I don't think it has helped me with flying.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Big beer belly should probably do a little more research beyond his couch, and the internet, in particular regarding the airbus structural separation.

The problem was not aggressive operation of the rudder, but the reversal of the controls coupled with their deflection. Aggression represents an emotional input; the problem was the reversal of input and the magnitude thereof. The manufacturer, with considerable test and engineering data available to establish the operating parameters of it's product (and considerable computer laws to establish just what the pilot can't do with the product), did not provide any indication or direction that this eventuality was possible or likely at sub-design limiting speeds.

Airbus through it's laws, and Boeing through equipment such as ratio changers, strive to prevent overcontrol or excessive control deflection. You will not find any place in the training for that airplane which directed the pilots to avoid large pedal movements or deflections during low speed flight.

It would seem that whereas the ample intellectual educated sea of degrees which formed the wealth of pedigreed knowledge which designed and built the airplane, oversaw it's certification, crafted and administered the training, and who flew it for years did no better than poor uneducated pilot who died while discovering that oversight.

Incidentally...do you know what level of education was held by the deceased flight crewmembers? Have you made effort to determine their education level?

Then again, would a doctorate have made an iota of difference in operating an airplane in accordance with the training received, the manufacturer policies and procedures established, and the laws built into the airframe and the logic thereof? No, it would not, hence the sheer absurdity and utter ignorance of your statements.

More glaring than the ignorant nature of your comments, however, is that you elected to inject them into a thread enquiring about the welfare of pilots and crew who have recently been subject to a miracle of survival, and whom have suffered significant personal injury. The intent of this thread was concern for their welfare and well being, not your inaccurate, unfortuanate, and poorly informed political rant regarding subjects for which you have little understanding, and apparently, insight.

What you have managed to not only embarass yourself and offend others, but to destroy whatever credibility you might have had before you started. Congratulations.

Well said Avbug, thanks.

 

[JT8D]

Glad the crew is home and recovering

As for the thread drift, I have found that two things hold true no matter what Ive done in life...wether camping in the back country or landing a 100,000 lb jet:

One, it's better to be way over educated than just a tiny bit ignorant (ignorant meaning not knowing).

Two, it's better to be 'smart' than 'dumb', referring to actual mental capacity (the level of comprehension your brain will be able to attain when you were born).