Just wanted to you guys to know...You DO make a difference.

[Flapjack]

See, the biggest fallacy is that you will be money ahead if you PFT. It's just not true. See my earlier post - I know it was long, and PFT type people just want the quick and easy route, but seriously....you lose money up front, you lose money long term. And you just don't have any credibility or integrity.

When you PFT, you aren't a scab, but you are well on your way.

I have no doubt that the PFT crowd can justify their decision any number of ways, but they are wrong in every single way. Your hire date at a regional has very, very little to do with when you get hired at the major airline of your choice...

 

[Rekks Inbound]

G-Code,

Kudo's to you! Don't listen to these PFT idiots, they don't know what they are talking about.

I taught for almost 4500 hrs back in the early 90's. I could have gone to Comair with their PFT program but didn't, because not only didn't I have the money, but I felt it was wrong to do so, because if they continued with that program, all airlines would eventually do it.

Then I flew freight for almost 10 years before coming to AWAC, and I don't regret it one minute. The experience and decision making gained CFI'ing and flying cargo is irreplacable. PFT'ers don't have it. AWAC made the mistake of experimenting with semi-PFT; the results were not good.

The point of this is very simple; PFT is for LAZY PILOTS! It works great for those born with a silver spoon in their mouth, or for those who want to live in debt (Debt free is the ONLY way to survive the first few years at a regional, unless you like your stress level through the roof).

If you want to come to AWAC, PM me when you get to about 1000-1200 hrs. We'll talk.

Rekks

 

[Nindiri]

If you had gone to Comair in the early nineties instead, you'd be at a major now.

 

[Crossky]

If you had gone to Comair in the early nineties instead, you'd be at a major now.

I think you mean FURLOUGHED from a major now.

 

[Standby 1]

The PFT'ers attitudes being showcased in this thread is exactly why no captain likes flying with them (skills or no skills it is a pain in the butt when you've got to take the controls from someone who has that kind of an attitude). They know what other pilots think of them and it sure does evoke their big defense mechanisms, doesn't it?

Self-respect means a lot more to most of us. Just knowing you earned your job the old-fashioned way is worth a heck of a lot more.

BTW, I was just in the other week speaking to one of our newhire classes...not a PFT'er to be found...all were CFIs or from another 121 operator.



.

 

[IAHERJ]

I interviewed hundreds of pilots a year for almost 2 years before 9/11 shut down our hiring department at COEX for a while. We did not look at CFI's in a bad light at all. In fact, we liked seeing guys/gals earn their flight time in the CFI environment vs. paying for multi time. Remember that most of the people conducting interviews at both the regionals and majors today at one time or another instructed at some sort of flight school. Do what feels right for you but at the same time remember that someday you will be telling your story. You are writing your individual aviation history book right now. The next few years will be very important and you want to take the path you will be proud of later in your career. Whatever that path looks like, I hope it takes you where you want it too. Being a Central Texan, if you ever are out on Lake Travis in the Summer, look for a boat with a name that identifies one with an airline in a unobvious way. I will look forward to filling your head with more useless airline gospel and your stomach with cold beer.

IAHERJ

 

[Nindiri]

Never PFT'ed myself (didn't need to, lucked into a corporate job), but I never really cared one way or the other whether my FO's did. As long as they can do their job and have a good attitude, I couldn't care less about what career path they chose to get to this point. Can't really tell any difference in their skills, either.

 

[HulkHogan]

Thank you!

 

[pilotboy76]

Whose point?

Wow! You guys are giving her hell on this one!

G-code... That you took advice from people on this thread and listened to the ones whom you respected shows you have an open ear and are not above taking someones input.
G-Code-1 / Bad decision-0

You will realize quickly that the industry is an ever evolving beast, and that one good decision today, may be a bad decision next year. Targeting a certain regional airline before you have completed your commercial license or even have 1000 hours is a little presumptious(did I spell that right english majors?), so dont tunnel vision yourself yet. Those two you mentioned may be crap pay and out of business for all we know by the time your ready. Be open to other oppourtunities, frieght, corporate, ferry flying, etc.., and not just flight instructing until you have regional minimums.
G-Code-1 / Bad decision-1

Now, study, network, and fly your ass off. Be honest, dont drink and drive, dont piss ANYONE off, and show up on time. Surf for hiring info, talk to other CFIs and visit with your schools career placement office. Dont get yourself into too much debt, and dont listen to negative people in this business. If this is what you want to do, then your drive will let you suceed, no matter what or how many steps forward or back you take.
Good Luck
GB

 

[SeanD]

G-Code, I come from a list of direct family members who were and still are pilots for major airlines, one of whom flies for UPS. My father is a retired CA from a major and retired from a 757/767 and has flown just about every piece of equipment his company operated, he did the military route and only gained a small amount of flying hours while he was in due to a car accident he had so when he left he instructed to learn and gain more experience before he was hired by his first employer as an FE. I at one time wanted to attend Comair a few years back, he about crapped himself and told me if I did I would never make it to a major. Of course he is from the old school ect but he made a lot of sense in telling me that your experience before entering the airline world is too important to sell yourself short and it could have a major impact on the way you fly later on and if you fly bad and have bad people skills people will notice and your name will be out there among your company. Im not bashing on PFTing at all just giving some second hand advice. I am only in ground school to get my PPL right now then onto my other ratings to possibly instruct before applying to a regional.

My uncle and cousin both did the military route and got hired direct to the majors, granted the military will own your ass for awhile but it is among the best FREE training you can get and your getting paid for it. There are many other options you can do besides PFT and you will save yourself a ton of money and stress on having to pay it all back over the years. Okay Im pretty much saying what a lot of people on this thread are saying, just giving you my perspective. Good Luck and have fun doing it. See you at the finish line


Sean D

 

[COOPERVANE]

To all the PFT/fastrack guys. A theoretical question

If you could log 1000 of PIC 121 time illegally and be guaranteed never to be caught, would you do it?

You could skip all that annoying regional flying that would be a waste of your valuable time. Just call Delta and let them know you have 1000 hours PIC and you are in.

I would bet most of you would do it. The only reason you don't do it now isn't because it's wrong, but because you would get caught.

This reminds me of the occasional thread that pops up here where someone says "We all pad our logbook right?"

Character/honesty/integrity is dying in this country

G-code. Good for you. You won't regret it.

 

[Flyerjosh]

G-code,

For what it's worth, I commend you for your understanding of the challenges that we face as an industry. I also agree that instructing is a great way to build experience and flight time. I have to say that of the 7 years that I have been flying professionally, the time I spent as an instructor I was more aware of regs (both VFR and IFR) and more capable as a stick and rudder pilot, than any other time. (Now, I'd be afraid to go out and rent a Cessna for fear of making the evening news...)

However, I have to say that you "making a stand" for the industry does nothing but hurt your own career. The stand is going to have to be made on a huge scale for any change to become reality. It will require the unions (or the FAA) to step in and say, we won't allow 300 hr pilots to fly our airliners.

I say this as a former "wonder" myself. Call me what you want- like always deferred, I was hired through the ACA bridge intern program in 2000. I had a BS from UND, 670TT, and 63ME when I went to CRJ class. Did I PFT? Some might consider so, since I worked for free as an intern for 3 months. Perhaps, but it got me on the seniority list earlier than most of my fellow graduates.

As a result that allowed me to hold a Captain bid quicker (and make the money), and meant that I didn't get furloughed as soon as others during the downturn.

I never had an issue with fellow pilots that felt I "cheated" the system. In fact several pilots said they wish they had the opportunity back when they came on. PFT has been around for a long time, and it will stay around whether we like it or not.

Don't sell your soul for one of those programs and be sure to research your best opportunity, and certainly consider a more traditional route, but the decision is up to you. Decide what's right for you, and then take that route. Either way, the fast your can get a seniority number, the better.

 

[-Xavier-]

It certainly will, if your chosen craft is flight instructing. But if your chosen craft is flying for an airline then you would be better off both financially and professionally by flying for them as soon as possible.

I would agree, but I would rather get paid to flight instruct than paying $150 an hour for a multi-plane for a couple months.

 

[Berry McCockner]

I've got a question for all you anti-PFTers and die hard flight instructor, have to pay your dues, old school people. If you were a smart one in college and scored an internship after completing your multi-commercial with only 300hrs, which guaranteed you an interview with that airline......would you take the job, or would you decline and tell them that you wanted to instruct for a couple years so you can pay your dues and learn all that valuable CFI stuff??

 

[hoover]

Don't listen to these naysayers. The only RIGHT way to get to a regional (or anywhere for that matter) is the way that works for you.

 

[hoover]

By the way I know guys you were hired at UAL through a college intern program. Started with a CFI background and less than 1000 hours. They are now Captains.

 

[arthompson]

These are the same douchebags that use "I'm an airline pilot" as a pick-up line at the bars. Does anyone else care that it was two Gulfstream pilots that took a CRJ up to FL410, then killed themselves or that two other Gulfstream pilots ran an aircraft off the runway in MKE about a month later, took out some lights, then tried to proceed as if nothing ever happened?

To be fair in the MKE situation. It was *one* pilot, not two that were at fault. The FO bowed to the authority of the CA. It's the same thing that happened in LIT on the AA flight in 1998. The CA is no longer at 9E.