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Junior Manning?

seattle

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What is junior manning? It sounds like a bad thing. Thanks.

Seattle
 

d328pilot

flying in asia
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Ever seen the movie Office Space? Well junior manning is kinda what happens when he is asked to come in on the weekend. "hey peter whats happening. umm, yeah, we are gonna need you to come in on saturday, yeah, well um better make it sunday too. thanks peter" or something like that.
 

flx757

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Junior manning occurs when there are open trips left after all regular line holders who bid to pick up open time have picked up what they want, and all reserve pilots that are legal and available for that day have been assigned.

To cover the remaining open trip(s), crew scheduling is supposed to contact the most junior pilot that is legal to cover the trip, and proceed in reverse seniority order until they cover all the open time. Usually, it's the first pilot they can find that will answer their phone.

Sometimes it seems that it is more "junior convenient". That is, whomever they can contact, by whatever means, they will assign the trip...whether they are actually the most "junior available" or not.
 

seattle

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Is this supposed to help the junior guys/gals get more flight time? Why do airlines let their pilot labor pools get so low that they have to resort to forced overtime? This doesn't affect people with enough seniority to hold a line does it? Sorry for all of the q's - just try'n to learn. Thanks.

Seattle
 

surplus1

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seattle said:
Is this supposed to help the junior guys/gals get more flight time? Why do airlines let their pilot labor pools get so low that they have to resort to forced overtime? This doesn't affect people with enough seniority to hold a line does it? Sorry for all of the q's - just try'n to learn. Thanks.

Seattle

No, it is not supposed to help junior pilots get more flight time. The only place I've ever heard of a pilot wanting to "get more flight time" is in some small airline that hires inexperienced pilots. Airline pilots normally want to fly as little as possible for as much (money) as possible.

Why do airlines let staffing get so low? ....... Money, money, money. It is much cheaper to "junior man" a few pilots than to hire a new pilot.

In some cases it does affect people with enough seniority to hold a line. That depends on the pilot contract at the particular airline. Some contracts do not allow any junior manning at all.

Junior manning usually refers to calling in a pilot on his day off.
 

justApilot

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Bottom line....if you don't want to fly....don't answer the phone.
 

beezlebozo

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"In some cases it does affect people with enough seniority to hold a line. That depends on the pilot contract at the particular airline. Some contracts do not allow any junior manning at all."


It is my understanding that there is only one contract that doesn't allow junior manning at all (onto a trip on a day off).

Atlantic Coast Airlines

Beezlebozo,
Clown from hell
 

bobbysamd

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Are there ever any cases when no one can be found to cover a trip? Does that mean the trip is canxed?
 

ShawnC

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Well as soon as I get an airline job I am going to have to start using a call screener. Or at least get one of those voice changers that you see in the back of some magizines.
 

Boeingman

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Junior Manning? Sounds like a lineman for the Cowboys.

We have it at CAL. Only the ones who do not take precautions get nailed. Unless you get tagged at the airport by a tracker.

The pay is %150 normal rate. Not a bad deal but it blows while guys are on the street.
 
Last edited:

skeezer

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bobbysamd,

If they can't find anyone then yep, the flight cancels. Pretty lame to run your staffing that low but that is what is happening at PSA here. We are cancelling flights because we have don't have enough capatins to fly them (then we go and cancell upgrade classes so no new captains...go figure). Honeslty I don't know how this saves a company money when they junior man this much.

Unless I see a number I know on my caller ID I will not pick up the phone on my day off. Kinda sucks having to be parnoid about picking up your phone.

Take Care

Skeezer
 

bobbysamd

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Junior manning flight canxs

You're right, that is lame, to lose revenue because of not having enough staff to work a trip. Penny-wise and pound-foolish, in my opinion. Then, these companies whine about not having any money to pay people and all gloom and doom, including Chapter 11 . . . and bring on Frank Lorenzo-style union-busting . . . . :confused:

What a way to run a railroad (or airline) :rolleyes:
 

FLYnMONKEYS

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If you don't want to get junior manned and you're looking for a Regional job go to ACA. ACA doesn't have junior manning. Prob. the only airline in the country without it.
 

Dreamin'

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8 hr bottle to throttle...

If it's your day off, couldn't one very well have "had a drink" just before they picked up the phone? Thus one could say that they aren't legal to fly for 8 hours. Or are junior manning efforts made sufficiently in advance that it wouldn't matter?
 

ShawnC

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Sample Phone call

6:00AM in the Morning:

We need you to come in and fly a route.

Sorry, just had a drink.

:) Somehow I don't think that it would work that well.
 

skeezer

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Possible excuses to get out of junior manning if I pick up the phone:

1. "I 've had a lot of lunch beers today so the flight better be for tomorrow or I can't take it." (the rule is 12 hours at my company)

2. "My uniform is at the cleaners and the only things I have to wear are my wife beaters with BBQ sauce stains and some ratty jeans. You still want me to fly?"

3. If you make the mistake of picking up the phone in the wee hours of the morning (has happened to people I know). "I got wasted last night and am hung over!" Click.

Probably many more excuses to think up. I have a bottle of jack pretty near my phone so I am ready to take a swig if I happen to be in the mood to pick up the phone on my day off. :)

Skeezer
 

Boeingman

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Cute replies about the alcohol intake (especially in the early morning), but you could subject yourself to a fitness for duty
evaluation.
 

FlyinBrian

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Every now and then, scheduling will try to junior man you by ACARS when you call in-range. Don't answer them!!! Cockpit is sterile. Bolt for the door as soon as you're on the ground.
 

beezlebozo

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Junior Manning Possibilities

Interesting junior manning possibilities:

1. Simple phone call to home.

2. ACARS message to call scheduling.

3. Ops notification to call scheduling

4. Rampers/operations agents chasing you down in the parking lot on your way home to tag you for a trip

5. Chief pilot visits your home with a sheriff because he was "concerned with your well being since numerous phone calls went unanswered." (my understanding is this actually happened at Air Wisconsin in the early 90's)

6. Company FedEx's you a package, signing for delivery is acceptance of notification (again, I know someone who they tried this on at Air Wis in the early 90's).

Fun stuff, huh? Then, when you say you've had a drink at 0600 when they call you, the company sends you to a dependency program...
 

browntail

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The junior manning rules are usually much better once you get to the majors. I guess the older you are the less crap you put up with. At my company you can answer the phone all you want and all you have to say is sorry I'm not available. You can even ask what the proposed trip is and if you don't like it, " Sorry I'm not available"!

I remember all the crazy games my regional company would play with us. Their favorite was telling you on the in-range call. That finally stopped after pilots complained about safety issues. It seems guys would get so pissed that they would make all kinds of mistakes because their mind was pre-occupied with ways of getting out of the JA trip.
 
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