Junior Manning Questions.

[Cracker]

I am not too familiar with Junior Manning. The only thing that I understand is that they may contact you to work on your scheduled day off. Aside from that I'm not to sure what the JM details are.

What if you are not available on that day? ie. You are already on vacation out of base which is hours away. Do you get penalized for being available?

What if you already have plans for your day off? ie. You have once in a lifetime concert tickets. Can you turn the JM down without getting penalized?


I guess these questions are primarily for those who are exposed to JM. Are there any "loopholes" that help you? It just seems that Junior Manning is a little shady for a company to use that I don't really understand why people would choose to do it.

Any help making an ignorant pilot more knowledgable would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Heavy_D_Driver]

Make Yourself Unavailable

If you don't want to get junior manned make yourself unavailable on your days off. If you have a cell phone- don't give your cell phone number to dispatch to begin with, and if you already have given your cell phone number and your residence numbers to dispatch- don't answer your phones when they ring on your days off. If dispatch can't get ahold of you- you can't be notified for a trip right? If dispatch can't get ahold of you to notify you of a trip they simply go to the next most junior person on the list and try to notify them. There is no penalty or "disciplinary action" for dispatch not being able to contact you on your days off. Your days off are your days off- you don't have to let the company know where you are or what you are doing. If you do make the mistake of answering the wrong phone call on your day off and dispatch does notify you that you will have a trip- you pretty much have to bend over and accept it then. Usually dispatch will try to JM you on the release on your last day of a trip before you have a scheduled day off- that way you are pretty much assuredly notified with no way out, or they will JM you when you try to call off duty after the last leg of your trip before a scheduled day off. Those are pretty surefire ways of notifying you of being junior manned. Bottom line is- if you escape the clutches of the company and actually don't get junior manned on the release or trying to call off duty, don't answer your phone on your days off.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Exactly. Don't answer the phone.

Or, if you want the money, answer the phone no matter what! Most companies (if not all) pay at least time-and-a-half for JM assignments, on top of guarantee.

 

[PacoPollo]

....or if you answer the Phone let them know that is your 5beer!

 

[Smoking Man]

If they have your cell phone pretend that you are someone else and have just stolen the cell phone, tons of fun!

 

[Cracker]

I understand the whole "don't answer the phone" concept. But what if you do answer and you are out of town or already have "hard set" plansfor your day off. Do they penalize you for not being available?

So regardless of how they get a hold of you...you're saying that if are notified, be it by phone or by the release of your final day, you're screwed and you have to accept the assignment or you WILL be penalized?

 

[brew3departure]

Valid question...

Cracker,

You bring up a valid point - I can't imagine (okay, well, I can) that they could find a way to "penalize" you if you weren't available, because as someone else said, your days off are your days off. If you're in Vegas, simply say that. Or make up some other destination and say that, if your conscience allows.

This exact thing happened to me - my cell phone rings, I'm in Vegas - I didn't answer, but if I had, that's what I would have told them. One of the questions scheduling would ask after IOE was complete was "how far do you live from our base driving distance?" - and we were told that they needed that information for junior manning purposes.

Some outs we used to use - giving blood, crack open an adult beverage -- but like someone else said - they get you when it's on the release. And that really bites.

I wouldn't worry though - if you're on vacation, so be it. I'd make it somewhere FAR away from wherever your base is though!

Take care,
-brew3

 

[Cracker]

Just trying to satisfy my own morbid curiousity on why in the world would anyone accept Junior Manning on their contract. It sounds like such an obvious tool that scheduling can pull out to screw anyone. They've got you by the the gonads and there's nothing you can do about it.

That brings up some really serious Quality of Life issues. I still don't understand why would crew members willingly give up that much leverage to the company.

Without knowing the whole story, I hope that crew members who vote fo JM on their contracts really think that it's worth it. I must be ignorant, because I just don't see it.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Just trying to satisfy my own morbid curiousity on why in the world would anyone accept Junior Manning on their contract. It sounds like such an obvious tool that scheduling can pull out to screw anyone. They've got you by the the gonads and there's nothing you can do about it.

That brings up some really serious Quality of Life issues. I still don't understand why would crew members willingly give up that much leverage to the company.

Without knowing the whole story, I hope that crew members who vote fo JM on their contracts really think that it's worth it. I must be ignorant, because I just don't see it.

The quality of life issue works both ways with an airline schedule. If you get a scheduled to fly on a day you want off later in the month, call a friend or scheduling to see about a trade. If you're willing to help out with today's problem you can often ask for something in return. Most of the time you can get what you want, especially if you have the reputation of helping others when they need some time off. Don't answer phones or admit your the right person if you forget and pick up and don't want to work though. "You want to talk to X the pilot?.....Yeah, he's out exploring the outback this week".

 

[Heavy_D_Driver]

At Most Companies It Is a Big Deal

At most companies junior manning is not that much of a problem from what some of my friends have told me about their airlines. Most airlines try not to junior man pilots because most "good" contracts penalize the company for junior manning and not having a properly staffed airline. Some companies even have it in their contracts that you can only be junior manned so many times per year or per six months. Most companies also pay you time and a half plus per diem on any junior man assignment. For instance- I know someone at a very reputable company that got junior manned last July for a five day trip and he made more in five days than he would have in a month, so if you need some cash there are advantages.

Now at Great Lakes junior manning is a different story- We don't get time and a half (we just get the regular hourly rate) for a JM assignment and the company can junior man us all the way down to our minimum number of days off per month, every month. Lately junior manning has been rampant at Great Lakes because the airline is getting short on pilots once again. We really need to change the policy on junior manning in our contract (that is if we ever get another contract) because the company can junior man pilots as much as they want to with no reprocussions.

 

[Cracker]

It's all about perspective, I guess.

 

[Cracker]

Again...just for clarification....can they penalize you for turning down a junior manning assignment on your day off? cut and dry answer.

 

[skeezer]

In most cases YES. If they got you on the phone and you say NO you will have to do the carpet dance.

Say you are sick, drunk, fatigued, or in the Bahamas and you will probably be fine.

Peace!

Skeezer

 

[cargoflyr69]

The penalty depends on the company I would guess. Where I work, It is counted as a refusal to fly and may be grounds for dissmissal.

If you do have "hard set" plans for your time off and do make the mistake of picking up the phone. Tell them you just had a beer. or that youve just flown a 5 day trip and are feeling "Fatigued." You could even say you are in a city that your airline doesn't fly to, then they cant even deadhead you to your JM assignment. Remember that s-crew scheduling calls are recorded and if you tell them youve had a drink or are fatigued you won't be in trouble.

good luck

 

[Cracker]

What about getting busted on the release the last day that you work? FO---Please contact Crew Scheduling---

 

[WhiteCloud]

What about getting busted on the release the last day that you work? FO---Please contact Crew Scheduling---

Say again?....Your radio is unreadable..........We must be losing the cell....did you say have a good weekend?.....You have a great weekend too?......

 

[I.P. Freley]

Your release that you get over the radio, you mean?

 

[FSB99]

heard this one in the crashpad a while back..
crew scheduling calls early, o'dark thirty, to junior man you... when they ask for 'first officer....' or 'captain....', grumble sleepily, but loud enough for them to hear you, "honey.. here, i think this is for your husband.."

 

[I.P. Freley]

LOL!!

Better still, assuming you are male... "Honey, I think this is for YOU...."

Gosh, I crack myself up!

 

[Cracker]

LOL...brings new meaning to Junior Manning.