Jumpseat

[Tref]

Ya, that'll make me change my mind on the issue.

Maybe the pilots who elected you will change your mind, or elect someone else when they find out that you would prevent them from having a pretty cool benefit because you're a jackass. Anyway, moot point because NJA management won't buy off on it. But, I still think you're a jackass.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I am not opposed to an agreement with them if their policy changes nor am I opposed to hearing what they may have to offer, however AT THIS TIME, the fractionals offer no bennefit and have way to many pilots to risk diluting our jumpseats for. Sorry but thats just the way it is.

I really didn't expect so many people to get bent out of shape about this. You guys had a choice when looking for work. One drawback to the corperate life was lack of flight benefits. Which I'm told however that you make up for with a lot more pay and the frequent flyer miles.

No one is "bent out of shape" about this but you my friend. This whole thread is about someone asking whether jumpseating is currently approved for NJA pilots. It's not...

On average, when we want to catch a ride on an airliner we cash in points accrued from out company buying us tickets. The jumpseat would be a nice "perk" that would be used by our people about as much as 121 people would use NJA (if you think logically about it). Once in a while. WE DON'T NEED THE JUMPSEAT TO COMMUTE. Most of us don't commute.

This last paragraph is key. NJA pilots would not be "dilluting" several hundreds of junpseats on a daily basis. IF the program existed, a few NJA pilots would use it on a daily basis (maybe with your group, maybe not) and it would be for fun and it could be done on a lower priority than commuter 121 pilots. Of course, the above takes "out of the box" thinking... something that we pride ourselves on in our pilot group and Union leadership.

There is nothing worse than the "No Culture". See the David Spade commerical for more info on the No Culture.

I think it would be an AWESOME benefit for a regional jet jockey to be able to jump on an executive aircraft and fly to Saint Tropez on a week off. Plush leather, gold, shiney wood trim, plush carpeting, mood lighting a flight attendant (that's hot!) all to yourself and the crew, movies (for free) phone (for free), yada, yada, yada.

Yeah... that would suck for you guys. :erm:...

Bottom line: It doesn't matter. NJA dosn't have a management team willing to let other pilots on NJA Owner aircraft.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Ya, that'll make me change my mind on the issue.

You represent pilots my friend. Make sure that you represent their interests and not your own.

 

[mckpickle]

I am not opposed to an agreement with them if their policy changes nor am I opposed to hearing what they may have to offer, .

Man, I'm such and unreasonable jerk, WOW your are so right man.

 

[leterrip]

It is really interesting to come here and read this thread. McPick has some valid points and it seems that everyone bashing him reads only part of what he writes and then bashes away some more. I feel that if the fracs came to XJT to discuss the issue, baring mgt approval for you all, McPickle would listen and discuss it oh wait he already said that. I am one that he represents. And it seems to me the only time that jumpseat would be nice is going on vacation and not getting to work for the airlines peeps. I just do not see the immediate benefit that you all have to offer maybe I do not "look outside the box" enough. But commuting seems that you do not offer anything for our side. I am probably wrong though. So enlighten me please.

As far as UPS and FedEx prior to Sept. 11 I know a lot of pilots whom jumpseated on them. As far as in the future when the issues are fixed then I bet there will be some that use them again. To me that is more benefical for a jumpseat for the commuting purposes then a frax.

 

[fandango]

XTRA air will let fracs js. I am the JS coordinator. We have bases in CVG SDF and ENV (Wendover Utah). Mostly supplemental, some domestic. Kind of limited, but we will do what we can for y'all.

You need your company id, medical, license and contact number for us to verify employment (frac only, 121 operator not necessary). We are CASS as well for those able to use it.

We have 737-400s and an 800. 4 at the moment, and supposedly getting a few more by the end of the year.

We do alot of vacation destinations cancun, libera costa rica, punta conna dominican repub, etc.

Hope this helps.

Fandango

 

[Floyd94]

Ive flown with McPickle a couple of times and he represents me as well. I can attest that he is far from a "Jackass" as you might claim. As a matter of fact, when I upgraded, he was one of the guys I try and emulate as a captain.

On another note, is it not true that the majority of you Netjet guys are homebased? Also, aren't the new hires supposed to live within a couple of hours drive from their chosen base as well? It seems to me that your management dosen't even give you a chance to utilize a jumpseat for commuting purposes. Additionaly, how are we as regional pilots suppose to know what your schedules are?

 

[727PAA]

Jumpseating.

I am the J/S guyfor Colgan Air. We are a US Airways Express/United Express/ Continental Connection Carrier. We have an open jumpseat policy. Anyone 121 or 135 can ride. Priority is based on the Gate Agents and Captains working it out. Best policy is get to the Captain though, as the gate agents like to look in a silly computer for the Major carriers agreements.

I too though see no benefit for my pilot group with the Fractionals. As you say it might be great for a Regional pilot to get a free ride to St. Tropez, but, how do you get back. How would that same pilot find out if he could get back from anywhere you took him/her. I hear that there are 600 airplanes, but, I haven't seen a schedule posted anywhere that I can find out where/when they are flying empty.

I and my fellow pilots have worked with managment to keep the opportunity open for our fellow "professional" pilots to get on our aircraft.

I would urge the "professional pilots" on this board to lay off McPickle, because he is a true professional and is charged with doing what is right for his pilots. In my opinion he does a very good job of it. He might not be doing what is best for YOUR pilots...but give him a break.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Miami air, polar & Atlas will take us 135 guys anywhere (thanks guys!)

 

[Tref]

XTRA air will let fracs js. I am the JS coordinator. We have bases in CVG SDF and ENV (Wendover Utah). Mostly supplemental, some domestic. Kind of limited, but we will do what we can for y'all.

You need your company id, medical, license and contact number for us to verify employment (frac only, 121 operator not necessary). We are CASS as well for those able to use it.

We have 737-400s and an 800. 4 at the moment, and supposedly getting a few more by the end of the year.

We do alot of vacation destinations cancun, libera costa rica, punta conna dominican repub, etc.

Hope this helps.

Fandango

Thanks Fandango!

 

[Britpilot]

Man, I'm such and unreasonable jerk, WOW your are so right man.

Yeah Steve, you're a jerk alright. Now get off your high horse and let those poor Frac pilots on the jump. They have, after all, done so much for us in the past.:smash:

 

[FLYLOW22]

XTRA air will let fracs js. I am the JS coordinator. We have bases in CVG SDF and ENV (Wendover Utah). Mostly supplemental, some domestic. Kind of limited, but we will do what we can for y'all.

You need your company id, medical, license and contact number for us to verify employment (frac only, 121 operator not necessary). We are CASS as well for those able to use it.

We have 737-400s and an 800. 4 at the moment, and supposedly getting a few more by the end of the year.

We do alot of vacation destinations cancun, libera costa rica, punta conna dominican repub, etc.

Hope this helps.

Fandango

Awesome deal Fandango.

I will forward thsi info to our Jumspeat Committee. Yes, we have one but it's not been very active in recent years.

 

[FLYLOW22]

On another note, is it not true that the majority of you Netjet guys are homebased?

Yes. The newhires are not. They report to one of 5 cities.

Also, aren't the new hires supposed to live within a couple of hours drive from their chosen base as well?

No. Labor languagism at it's best here... "pilot's hired after ratification must report to work at 1 of the 5 domiciles."

It seems to me that your management dosen't even give you a chance to utilize a jumpseat for commuting purposes. Additionaly, how are we as regional pilots suppose to know what your schedules are?

We don't commute. At all. Our management team has NOT come through in regards to approving a jumpseat program for us to use with other airlines. The promised it and nenigged. Oh well.

We have a list of all ferry legs available to each of us through our computer system that shows equipment type, to/from, time of departure and FBO location. That same info could easily be given to an offline jumpseater over the phone by our people. In fact, that was the plan.

Personal accusations aside...

NJA pilots don't commute. The jumpseat would just be a fun thing for us. As such, putting us on a lower priority jumpseat status than a commuter would most likely be fine (I would leave that up to our committee though). Since we don't commute, I don't see many of us ever truly using the jumpseat than to have some fun on days off.

121 guys commute. All the time. Every trip. There and back. Most likely a 121 pilot would take NJA up on a fancy ride in a private jet just for fun too.

I wouldn't use a ride on a NJA plane as a sure thing to make my pushback time. Don't see why you would either.

Also, on a personal note... after flying for a week the last thing I wanna see is an airplane. I doubt I would opt for the "oh am I gonna make it" stress of riding the jumpseat.

I don't even know why this is such a thread. It's all based on fantasy... for now anyway.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I too though see no benefit for my pilot group with the Fractionals. As you say it might be great for a Regional pilot to get a free ride to St. Tropez, but, how do you get back.

I would assume they would do what I would do in the same situation. I would take a train, boat or automobile (ALL OVER EUROPE 4 CHEAP) to the nearest major airport and... JUMPSEAT home. DAL, AA, US, NWA, UAL all fly to many places in Europe and most offer the int'l jumpseat (or used to) to fellow 121 guys/gals.

or.... call NJA and check the schedule for departing ferry flights back to the US then get to the plane.

How would that same pilot find out if he could get back from anywhere you took him/her.

Same as above.

I hear that there are 600 airplanes, but, I haven't seen a schedule posted anywhere that I can find out where/when they are flying empty.

See one or two posts above. My pager right here shows all of our ferry flights today on all aircraft. The same info could be made available to offline jumpseaters upon request... if management set up the program.

I and my fellow pilots have worked with managment to keep the opportunity open for our fellow "professional" pilots to get on our aircraft.

I assure you that we brush our teeth and follow SOP's. We pull in great pilots from every facet of the industry... even 121.

I would urge the "professional pilots" on this board to lay off McPickle, because he is a true professional and is charged with doing what is right for his pilots. In my opinion he does a very good job of it.

Never started anything with Mayor McPickle... concerning his computer communication skills he just seems a bit... phickle. (sorry)

He seems really dedicated but perhaps a bit overworked (who isn't these days).

There are always plenty of pilots complaining about the Union but few wishing to actually do anything with ther Union. For that, McPickle is awesome.

He might not be doing what is best for YOUR pilots...but give him a break.

Roger.

 

[727PAA]

My point was that there are some of us out there who gladly allow all 135 pilots to ride. Even though some of you cannot reciprocate.

For those that do not I don't blame them for they too have managments that use any excuse to wring money or bene's from the pilot groups. If you are using this forum to find out which airlines that will let you on, then super. I just don't think that this is the place to bash a J/S coordinator that came on to tell you why his particular airline won't let you on. Perhaps you can use some of his comments when you reopen your contract negotiation next time to get a better QOL for your pilots.

Just my .02 and welcome aboard.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I just don't think that this is the place to bash a J/S coordinator that came on to tell you why his particular airline won't let you on. Perhaps you can use some of his comments when you reopen your contract negotiation next time to get a better QOL for your pilots.

Just my .02 and welcome aboard.

Some bashed him. Not I.

I commend him for his volunteership but hope that he can think outside the box on certain things. Unions have far too few volunteers usually.

Welcome aboard? I've been here for years my friend!

I must wecome you!

P.S. I'm not sure the jumpseat issue is something that the pilots here are willing to negotiate for. We already offered all expenses incurred by the company for a Jumpseat program would be paid in full by our pilots. Management still passed.

The program isn't worth spending collateral on. I'd rather have more cash in pocket personally.

 

[medic&cfi]

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[FLYLOW22]

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That! Is awesome!!!!

 

[Tref]

My point was that there are some of us out there who gladly allow all 135 pilots to ride. Even though some of you cannot reciprocate.

That is the position that I have always supported. I think that in a perfect world all professional pilots would be welcome on any jumpseat. If they caused any problems they could personally be banned. It should be a professional courtesy.

I just don't think that this is the place to bash a J/S coordinator that came on to tell you why his particular airline won't let you on.

The reason I got mad at mckpickle is because it is not his management that is refusing fractional jumpseaters, but his own personal opinion of what it gets his pilots in return. I think it's sad for someone in that position to be playing such a playground game.

We're all pilots. I've personally worked for 2 majors, 2 regionals, 1 cargo carrier, 1 medivac/charter company and now 1 fractional. I've never seen this level of "but what do I get in return," from a union jumpseat coordinator. For years, Delta pilots were allowed to jumpseat on other carriers before they were able to reciprocate. Eventually they were able to return the favor.

I actually don't care all that much whether fractional pilots are allowed to jumpseat on ExpressJet. I would rarely/never use it. It just pi$$es me off that one pilot would have that attitude about other professional pilots. It's not about what you can get in return. It's about professional courtesy.

What's the trouble with having an offline jumpseater? If you're worried about your own pilots not getting on, then establish a system so that your own pilots have priority, or can even reserve the jumpseat in advance. Problem solved.

In the end union jumpseat coordinators should be working towards opening up jumpseats for all professional pilots, not picking and choosing what gets them the most in return. We have enough to deal with, with our respective management teams. We do not have to be fighting eachother as well.

 

[mckpickle]

That is the position that I have always supported. I think that in a perfect world all professional pilots would be welcome on any jumpseat. If they caused any problems they could personally be banned. It should be a professional courtesy.



The reason I got mad at mckpickle is because it is not his management that is refusing fractional jumpseaters, but his own personal opinion of what it gets his pilots in return. I think it's sad for someone in that position to be playing such a playground game.

We're all pilots. I've personally worked for 2 majors, 2 regionals, 1 cargo carrier, 1 medivac/charter company and now 1 fractional. I've never seen this level of "but what do I get in return," from a union jumpseat coordinator. For years, Delta pilots were allowed to jumpseat on other carriers before they were able to reciprocate. Eventually they were able to return the favor.

I actually don't care all that much whether fractional pilots are allowed to jumpseat on ExpressJet. I would rarely/never use it. It just pi$$es me off that one pilot would have that attitude about other professional pilots. It's not about what you can get in return. It's about professional courtesy.

What's the trouble with having an offline jumpseater? If you're worried about your own pilots not getting on, then establish a system so that your own pilots have priority, or can even reserve the jumpseat in advance. Problem solved.

In the end union jumpseat coordinators should be working towards opening up jumpseats for all professional pilots, not picking and choosing what gets them the most in return. We have enough to deal with, with our respective management teams. We do not have to be fighting eachother as well.

I understand why you see it this way. But it's really not the case. I have a certain amount of leverage and negotiating capital that I can use with management. I have to pick and choose what I ask for and what I can't. I have to choose to ask for the things that will most bennefit our pilots. If I went to management every week with this type of thing I'd never get anywhere with them. And believe me, I do talk with them every week about many issues. So it's not personal at all, I just have to weigh the plus and minus of each issue and figure out what is worth fighting for. This is the case with every JS committee out there.