Jumpseat war has begun

[pipe]

Easy with the analogies....

Where you child has a human right not to be abused... your fellow pilot does not have the right to jumpseat. Jumpseating is a priviledge.. no one is obligated to give it..... and sometimes it is a CBA right... but nonetheless that right does not supercede Capts Authority.

Socially is a looked down upon to deny someone... of course... but legally... there is nothing no can do about it..... of course socially... they can shun the guy... and it happens...

Just making the point that having authority and abusing that authority are two very different things.

I am not arguing that the capt doesn't have the authority. Exercising it for the wrong reasons is abuse of authority.

I am done with this thread. I see many of your points, I see many of PCL's points. You're both welcome to ride. Wear whatever freaking lanyard you want, just make sure to do your part to keep our reciprocal agreements in place.

PIPE

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I am not arguing that the capt doesn't have the authority. Exercising it for the wrong reasons is abuse of authority.

PIPE

How is denying someone a privilege abusing authority? Now here is an example....

If a stranger walks up to you in the WalMart parking lot, shows you ID and says, "can I have a ride" and you say no... whats the difference?

Were you obligated to say yes?
Did he deserve to ride in your car?

 

[pipe]

Did our families have a standing, reciprocal, signed agreement to give one another rides based on availability?

PIPE

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Did our families have a standing, reciprocal, signed agreement to give one another rides based on availability?

PIPE

Do you have a moral and ethical obligation to help your fellow man, when approached in a walmart parking lot?

Based on your arguements, you think we should let scabs ride the js.

 

[pipe]

I guess all that this argument will ever establish is that you live in domicile.

PIPE

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Ahhhh-shaddup and vote...let the democratic process go forward.

 

[JoeMerchant]

PCL128 and Rez are poster children for what is wrong with ALPA and why ALPA is in trouble....The fact is, USAPA is a union.....These two are advocating using the jumpseat against fellow union members.....

ALPA cheerleaders are more concerned with ALPA than anything else.....it is almost a religion for them....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Based on your arguements, you think we should let scabs ride the js.

There are ALPA members who are scabs....There was a CAL MEC Chairman who was a scab....There was an Eastern scab who was an ALPA committee chairman here at ASA.....Why not let'em ride the jumpseat...ALPA doesn't seem to mind them......

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

PCL128 and Rez are poster children for what is wrong with ALPA and why ALPA is in trouble....The fact is, USAPA is a union.....These two are advocating using the jumpseat against fellow union members.....

Wrong again butter fingers... all I advocate is democracy, particaption and captains authority. You like to sue ALPA, rape its pilots and finances. (with nothing to show for it....)

ALPA cheerleaders are more concerned with ALPA than anything else.....it is almost a religion for them....

Still wrong... you can't seem to get it right Popcorn boy..... ALPA with all its problems is still our representation... I say fix it instead of changing web address.... and shatting where one eats...

Funny your silly lawsuit... all it did was change the C&BL.... slightly.... if you had any skillset, character and personality you could have concinced the BOD... but your parents did a poor job.... so you had to sue... and just like USAPA they are finding out that it takes allot of money to move a little.... not much value there....

No difference between you and the hot coffee woman that sued McDonalds...


Have you "found" the missing minutes from that LEC meeting yet Joe?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I guess all that this argument will ever establish is that you live in domicile.

PIPE

Nope... I was on the js committee at my carrier.... I am still learning...but I also learned allot...

 

[JoeMerchant]

Wrong again butter fingers... all I advocate is democracy, particaption and captains authority. You like to sue ALPA, rape its pilots and finances. (with nothing to show for it....)



Still wrong... you can't seem to get it right Popcorn boy..... ALPA with all its problems is still our representation... I say fix it instead of changing web address.... and shatting where one eats...

Funny your silly lawsuit... all it did was change the C&BL.... slightly.... if you had any skillset, character and personality you could have concinced the BOD... but your parents did a poor job.... so you had to sue... and just like USAPA they are finding out that it takes allot of money to move a little.... not much value there....

Wrong again Herndon lap dog....3 current and former members of the ASA MEC have stated that the lawsuit helped them fend off the DAL MEC and their desire for a jets4jobs type screw job....

You sidestepped the issue as usual.....If USAPA becomes the union for USAirways, will you respect it as a union? Will you condone people kicking fellow union pilots off the jumpseat? If so, it speaks volumes as to the true motivations of the ALPA cheerleader section.....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Wrong again Herndon lap dog....3 current and former members of the ASA MEC have stated that the lawsuit helped them fend off the DAL MEC and their desire for a jets4jobs type screw job....

That doesn't mean the suit has value... just an uninteneded consequence that you can latch onto...

You sidestepped the issue as usual.....If USAPA becomes the union for USAirways, will you respect it as a union? Will you condone people kicking fellow union pilots off the jumpseat? If so, it speaks volumes as to the true motivations of the ALPA cheerleader section.....

Wrong again.... I never condoned kicking people off the js... just PIC Authority...


If USAPA wins..... I am sure time will heal all wounds...

Problem is you hate alpa for personal reasons... and wish USAPA to win for pure spite....

 

[JoeMerchant]

That doesn't mean the suit has value... just an uninteneded consequence that you can latch onto...

Actually that was one of the intended consequences for many of us....We don't want mainline pilots taking our jobs when times get tough....Some of us are happy with our jobs and want to protect them.....even if that means protecting them from fellow union "brothers"......

Many in the ASA and CMR MEC secretly supported the RJDC lawsuit....some even contributed to it.....They wouldn't say it publically because they were worried about retribution from Herndon.....Why we worry about people that work for us is beyond me....but that is what happened....

By the way....are you aware that many in ALPA's leadership ranks have sued ALPA.....including a former ALPA EVP who sued ALPA over DFR issues?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Actually that was one of the intended consequences for many of us....We don't want mainline pilots taking our jobs when times get tough....Some of us are happy with our jobs and want to protect them.....even if that means protecting them from fellow union "brothers"......

The legacy MECs aren;t all wonderful... and they need to do a better job with their regionals...

But it is very complex joe... you know it... doesn't justify your lawsuit...

Many in the ASA and CMR MEC secretly supported the RJDC lawsuit....some even contributed to it.....They wouldn't say it publically because they were worried about retribution from Herndon.....Why we worry about people that work for us is beyond me....but that is what happened....

Whatever you believe Joey...

By the way....are you aware that many in ALPA's leadership ranks have sued ALPA.....including a former ALPA EVP who sued ALPA over DFR issues?

And that allows you to feel better about your lawsuit....

 

[pipe]

You know - all anyone wants is for ALPA to get their SH!T together.

How about a legitimate merger policy? Why can't we write one where any of us, right now, could carry around some level of comfort - or at least knowledge - about where we could expect to stand in a merger.

There is NOT ONE ALPA pilot on this planet who is comfortable with where he/she would wind up in a merger. NOT ONE. By the way, it's too late now. The biggest mergers in airline history are already moving. No one's fixing a damn thing now. It didn't get fixed in the last 50 years -- if only we'd have had one more year.

You know who is comfortable? The APA pilots.

PIPE

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Agreed.... and it is difficult no doubt about that...

 

[JoeMerchant]

The legacy MECs aren;t all wonderful... and they need to do a better job with their regionals...

But it is very complex joe... you know it... doesn't justify your lawsuit...

.....complex for the Herndon politicians....not complex for me......I'm looking out for number one.....and that ain't you.....You admit they aren't wonderful....I realised that along time ago....

ALPA and the mainline MECs can start doing "better", or they can face more lawsuits and decertification drives.....The choice is theirs.....

Why are you still so upset about the lawsuit? Must have done some good if you still have your panties in a wad over it......

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

.....complex for the Herndon politicians....not complex for me......I'm looking out for number one.....and that ain't you.....You admit they aren't wonderful....I realised that along time ago....

maybe that is why you are persona non grata.... you got Joey ideas but no "us" ideas...

ALPA and the mainline MECs can start doing "better", or they can face more lawsuits and decertification drives.....The choice is theirs.....

agreed....

Why are you still so upset about the lawsuit? Must have done some good if you still have your panties in a wad over it......

because I didn't get good value for my dues dollar...dollars spent in your self serving lawsuit... you gave me no choice on that... that is why I and many more have no respect for you...

 

[JoeMerchant]

maybe that is why you are persona non grata.... you got Joey ideas but no "us" ideas...

There is no "us" in ALPA....if you can't see that, then you are a bigger fool than I thought....

because I didn't get good value for my dues dollar...dollars spent in your self serving lawsuit... you gave me no choice on that... that is why I and many more have no respect for you...

....sorry you feel that way....I believe I got value for my dollars....If you feel that way, you better start working on preventing the next lawsuit over scope....The door was left open in this settlement to sue again.....

 

[737 Pylt]

There is no "us" in ALPA....if you can't see that, then you are a bigger fool than I thought..

:laugh: :laugh:
This coming from an officer in the most self serving organization that ever existed!

....sorry you feel that way....I believe I got value for my dollars....If you feel that way, you better start working on preventing the next lawsuit over scope....The door was left open in this settlement to sue again.....

If at first you don't succeed, sue, sue again!
Hurry now, Haber's looking to re tile his pool in the hamptons! Funny how you idiots love throwing money away!

737

 

[Black Hawk]

Courtesy works both ways and it sure isn't courteous to try to take someone's job away through political maneuvering.

 

[ackattacker]

How is denying someone a privilege abusing authority? Now here is an example....

If a stranger walks up to you in the WalMart parking lot, shows you ID and says, "can I have a ride" and you say no... whats the difference?

Were you obligated to say yes?
Did he deserve to ride in your car?

That is a very poor analogy.

The reality of the situation is closer to a car pool. You agreed to take your coworkers in your car in exchange for them taking you in theirs. Sure it's still your car. But you had an arrangement, and its best not to start fraking with it.

 

[Caveman]

So many people fail to see this for the war that it is. There is no neutral ground. One side is prepared to use it's numbers to force it's warped view of fairness on a much smaller group and in the process jeopardize everyone's future. There was a legitimate legal process that both sides agreed to and that process played out to the end. Then, the so-called losing side flipped over the checker board and pulled out a pistol (in the form of an ill-timed representation vote) deciding that it would make the rules now.

So don't sound so shocked that somebody is forced to call scheduling unable to make their report. This war was unilaterally declared and it is naieve to think that no one will be affected by it.

Excellent point. I'm opposed to denying the JS to someone simply because they work for a particular carrier. I'm also opposed to a guest in my cockpit openly advocating the demise of my job. Any way you look at it it is simply bad manners to wear that lanyard under those circumstances. It's easy to condem the Capt for exercising his authority (and right) to deny the JS. If the JSer had not created the situation in the first place there would not have been an issue.

If denying the JS based on a scab list is acceptable, why is this any different? I'm not even remotely suggesting that USAPA proponents are scabs. They clearly are not. They are, however, actively and openly trying to damage the careers of AWA pilots. The net result is the same. I'm not surprised this happened and I expect it to get more acrimonious as this whole mess plays out.

If I were an AWA Capt I would graciously offer my JS to any AAA pilot and vice versa. There would probably be an unspoken agreement to agree to disagree about all the integration issues. I would be pleasant, courteous and hospitable. I would expect my guest to do the same. At the destination we'd depart company with a handshake and polite well wishes. As professionals we'd leave the union politics out of it. The jumpseat is neither the time nor place for that stuff. If either party decides to not play by these rules, then all bets are off.

Go ahead. Exercise your right to wear your USAPA lanyard. If you ask for a ride on any carrier other than AWA it won't be a big deal. However, don't expect to get the JS on many AWA aircraft. Nor should you IMO. At best, it's bad manners. At worst, it's offensive and threatening.

 

[CEO silly sap]

There is no "us" in ALPA....if you can't see that, then you are a bigger fool than I thought....




.....

But there was alot of UR in USAIR, like UR pension
UR Scope
Ur Wife
Ur kid private school
Ur hope of making captain.

Yep blame Alpa because U rolled over for Wolf and haji, then you take ALABAMA Retirement managment to task and you lose that, Friggin ALABAMA....damn go back to the woods and play with your speed bird aka chicken.

 

[PurpleInMEM]

.....complex for the Herndon politicians....not complex for me......I'm looking out for number one.....and that ain't you.....You admit they aren't wonderful....I realised that along time ago....

ALPA and the mainline MECs can start doing "better", or they can face more lawsuits and decertification drives.....The choice is theirs.....

Why are you still so upset about the lawsuit? Must have done some good if you still have your panties in a wad over it......

Hmmm....maybe USAPA would like the dues revenue from 5000 FedEx pilots. Interesting prospect in light of our newfound inability to vote with our feet.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Hmmm....maybe USAPA would like the dues revenue from 5000 FedEx pilots. Interesting prospect in light of our newfound inability to vote with our feet.

......"Walkin in Memphis"? Are there problems developing there? Details?