jumpseat abuse on jetblue

[CALformerCALX]

CALformerCALX:

I'm just curious... why does your signature say "When I get the chance it's bye bye CAL."

Do you want to leave CAL for somewhere else? If so, where?

Absolutely. I'm sick of the CAL pilots (namely the SCABS) who could care less about the CALX pilots. All they have an interest in doing is scoping them out of career opportunity and coming from CALX I don't feel as though mainline pilots should hold back their regional brothers. Scope doesn't work and all flying by a namebrand should be done by mainline pilots. CALX pilots should be CAL pilots. Comair pilots should be on the Delta list and so on. But many will argue against that idea. So be it. We all will just continue to try scope when it is obvious IT DOESN"T WORK. ONLY FOR MANAGAMENT. It simply allows a continued pitting of one pilot group against another and management loved that. There is a push now at CAL to seperate our existing MEC into two seperate MEC. Basically throwing the CALX pilots out. And guess who are the main group pushing this. You guessed it, the SCABS.

Also, I am sick of the way CAL scheduling at managements direction have constantly crapped on us while continuing to take huge bonuses. Before last summer I was a very positive person with regards to CAL. But the way I was treated this past summer and with the SCABS I just have finally realized it is time for me to leave because I hate the place and could care less about it's future. If it wasn't for the thousands of good people there I wouldn't shed a tear if it went under and took the scabs with it.

Obviously, this bitterness isn't something I want to deal with for the next 27 years so I figured it is simply time to get out. I do realize that all airlines have their issues but CAL is different. Make no mistake about it. WE ARE A SCAB AIRLINE THAT WILL BE RUN BY SCABS FOR AT LEAST ANOTHER 10 YEARS. I'm still amazed at ALPA for taking us back. Even our MEC chair is a former SCAB.

CALX was a great experience. I can honestly say that the 4 years I spent there were more enjoyable than the 6 I've been at mainline. From the very begining it was clear CAL was different. It had a positive attitude after so many down years but you could also see a -wait until things get bad-feeling-, and it's true identity would show. Well that has happened. Prior to merging with ALPA the SCABS weren't very involved because they are anti-union and out for themselves. After the merger they woke up. They are only unified in being anti-union and ALPA. They are either so apathetic it will make you sick or they are the most organized when it comes to creating division. Becaue of this management is starting to take advantage of us and the SCABS are getting what they want as well. They are running the union and are in no way really being affected by 9-11. Super senior. Yet they are scared to death of the pro-ALPA CALX pilots coming over. Therefore they want to eliminate them and management is loving it.

As to where I would like to go. SWA, UPS, or FedEX. Maybe JetBlue.

 

[a320drivr]

We have a few scabs at jetBlue. Believe me, that doesnt make me very happy.

 

[CALformerCALX]

We have a few scabs at jetBlue. Believe me, that doesnt make me very happy.

Our problem isn't a few...it's alot. We have approx. 900. With the lower 650 on furlough hat means that effectively our pilot group is made up of 25% SCABS as we fight for another contract.

Most airlines have a few but they're not enough to make a big difference but at CAL we qualify to be called "THE SCAB AIRLINE."

 

[PCL Flt-ops]

CALformerCALX:

I'll tell you something. One of my best friends (a CAL Captain) is a scab. He was almost like a stepdad to me and I wouldn't be where I am in aviation today if it wasn't for him. I've known him since I started flying at 16 years old. When I first started flying, I was clueless about Scabs, Unions, and all of the strikes that had happened. Now I understand it all, and it puts stress on our friendship. But it's always something that is on the back of my mind now that I am older. That's all I will say on that.

I know that if any pilot ever crossed a picket line at an airline that I worked for while I was out on strike, that I would never forgive him/her, even if they were my best friend.

I was very young when the CAL strike of 1983 happened. But I did study the history of it. I know that at one time, the majority of the CAL pilots were scabs. They replaced a majority of the pilot force from 1983 - 1985 by hiring scabs. And a lot of the active pilots eventually crossed too.

But now I believe that the scab population is decreasing. I think that probably in ten years, they will be a very small minority. If you have a 33-year career there, I would think that eventually things would change... more so when things turn around and CAL hires even more pilots.

I've had the opportunity to meet several different pilot groups, by both internships in college and by the affiliation of the regional that I fly for (i.e.- Northwest). And I can tell you that there are different corporate cultures at different majors. I can tell you that UAL and NWA pilots probably hate Scabs more than any airline. American and Delta aren't so harcore like them. I think the reason is that UAL went through a strike in 1985, and NWA has also had a 1997 strike.

But thank you for the insight on your opinion. I welcome any further comments that you might have on this subject area.

 

[canyonblue]

and NWA has also had a 1997 strike.

There were no scabs in '97 at NWA. The scabs were mostly from the strikes in the '60s and '70s strikes. But then again NWA used to be nicknamed Cobra Airlines, because they would strike at anything.

 

[CALformerCALX]

I was very young when the CAL strike of 1983 happened. But I did study the history of it.

I was young as well and when I came to CAL I had the opinion that what happened while I was in Little League wasn't for me to judge other than saying I would never do it. But I tried to harbor no strong negative feelings outright. Basically, I cared about the next 33 and not the last 20 was my position. But since the merger with ALPA, 9-11, SCABS not bidding all their vacation time, and constantly padding their W2s, picking up open time,while we have guys on furlough makes me sick to sit next to the bastards for a four day trip.

Not all are bad. Your friend may or may not cross again but I would wonder if he has bid all his vacation or if he picks up open time.

You are right the SCABS will lose out over thext 10-12 years but I don't feel like waiting until age 45 to be somewhere that is enjoyable. Until then they stick together in an attempt to throw out ALPA or to throw out the CALX pilots and basically could careless about our contract so long as they are Super Senior and living in the Woodlands or on Lake Conroe.


Sorry everyone for the thread drift. Back to JSing.

 

[j41driver]

Even our MEC chair is a former SCAB.

Once a SCAB, always a SCAB. No such thing as a former SCAB.

 

[RyanB727]

Just my 2 cents about JetBlue

September 11, as you probably remember, was on a Tuesday. I was stranded in Baltimore for 3 days but the company finally had me up flying again by the end of the week. I ended my trip in Rochester, NY and commuting home (to ATL) was an absolute nightmare. Traveling was a mess, jumpseating was a mess. No one would give me a ride out of ROC. The only place JetBlue went out of ROC was to JFK, which wasn't where I wanted to go, but a ride is a ride. The JetBlue crew didn't hesitate to help get me out of there. They took me to JFK (on the way we flew right over the still smoking remains of the WTC....a sight I will never forget). Another JetBlue crew took me from JFK down to MCO. From there I was able to talk an AirTran crew into taking me to ATL.

On a day when the majors wouldn't even talk to someone working for a second-rate freight outfit, those JetBlue (and AirTran) guys were absolute lifesavers.

 

[Boeingman]

I just have finally realized it is time for me to leave because I hate the place and could care less about it's future.

Good leave and don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out. We have a lot of guys on the street that want to get back to your seat. Besides, you knew the situation at CAL when you came here, just like I knew after coming back under the O & A. Deal with it.

I was going to respond to some of your dribble one by one but decided against it. Your generalizations are so far off base it is comical. Sure you come off as a tough guy on this forum, but do you have the balls to speak your mind in person with these SCABS or is this just electronic bravado?

Attitudes like yours serve no purpose and on the opposite side of the spectrum are just as detrimental towards my pilot group attaining a first class contract as those you're complaining about.

And I'll tell you something else. I fly with guys from all classes of the seniority list and I can assure you that the SCABS are not the only express haters or people who have a disdain for ALPA. There were also quite a few ex Express pilots who didn't bid there vacations either I might add. Don't believe me? Talk to a 90 hire about CALX.

As far as the MEC chairman, I was a full term striker and if I was in the same medical situation with his family in 9/83, I probably would of crossed as well.

Enough said.

 

[Boeingman]

I was very young when the CAL strike of 1983 happened. But I did study the history of it. I know that at one time, the majority of the CAL pilots were scabs. They replaced a majority of the pilot force from 1983 - 1985 by hiring scabs. And a lot of the active pilots eventually crossed too.

Let's not forget that most of the scabs CAL hired were ex ALPA members. Something to think about.

Our strike failed because we did not have the true support of all the line pilots and it was planned poorly. Had 400 original CAL pilots not of crossed within the first couple of weeks Frank would of had to change his game plan.

I also firmly believe ALPA would of sacrificed us in a heartbeat.

P.S. For any smart mouths out there....my pin has a star on top of it.

 

[CALformerCALX]

Good leave and don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out. We have a lot of guys on the street that want to get back to your seat.

Sure you come off as a tough guy on this forum, but do you have the balls to speak your mind in person with these SCABS or is this just electronic bravado?

Attitudes like yours serve no purpose and on the opposite side of the spectrum are just as detrimental towards my pilot group attaining a first class contract as those you're complaining about.

-Yea, and the union estimates that 38 more would have been recalled if all had bid their vacation. At least when I leave it will bring one back but by not bidding all their vacation they selfishly kept others on the street.

-No I'm not a tough guy just expressing my thoughts. Same as you. I do appreciate your full-term strike status but here you are a CA at CAL and speak up for them. No wonder they've taken over. As a 737 FO in IAH with a CP office and training department infested with SCABs you can't speak your mind at CAL without retrobution. I will keep my record clean so I can leave and let the door hit me in the A$$ on the way out.

-No it's apathy like yours taking up for the SCABS is why we will never be in control of our futures. I really don't blame our MEC chair from crossing because I do know his history I just don't believe any SCAB, whatever the reason, should be allowed to run or be elected to an ALPA Chair after crossing an ALPA picket line.

-I would be willing to bet that I've pointed out something that stuck you alittle and that is why you are upset with me. But for the record and for those reading. Answer these questions:

1-Did you bid all your vacation time which should have been 35-42 days in your case?

2-Have you picked up any open time since 10-01 (first furlough) that added to your line value directly? Not to be confused with trading that gave you more productivity but straight PU.

3-What has been your average line value since 10-01?

4-How much is in your sick bank?

Here are my answers:
1-yes, I bid all 5 weeks.
2-NO
3-61.3
4- 62:12.

 

[zonker]

Your signature line and complaining about how much you dislike your job on a public forum is insulting to the furloughed CAL pilots that you say you support.

Maybe you should think about that.

 

[CALformerCALX]

There were also quite a few ex Express pilots who didn't bid there vacations either I might add. Don't believe me? Talk to a 90 hire about CALX.

Yes, that is true. In total 370 didn't bid all vacation and 51 in that number were EX CALX out of the 1200 who have come from CALX either through the "transition" program or the "flo-thru" program.

As far as a 90 hire not liking ex calx pilots that shows how ignorant they are of the history that caused that. Management hired them without telling them that there were CALX pilots still at CALX who would eventually come over and be senior. That was management not telling the truth becaue if they had most of those 90 hires would not have come to CAL knowing that. So for a 90 hire to blame anyone else but CAL is rediculous.

So lets tell the whole story here if we are going to continue this debate publicly.

 

[CALformerCALX]

Your signature line and complaining about how much you dislike your job on a public forum is insulting to the furloughed CAL pilots that you say you support.

Maybe you should think about that.

In a way you might be right. But those furloughed pilots are out there in higher numbers becaue of the lack of unity within the CAL ranks.

With that said I will refrain from bashing the CAL pilots or CAL in general.

 

[Boeingman]

-Yea, and the union estimates that 38 more would have been recalled if all had bid their vacation. At least when I leave it will bring one back but by not bidding all their vacation they selfishly kept others on the street.

The 14% comprised a large cross section of the seniority list. Fact is your broad generalizations are in fact a joke on this particular subject. Also, I might add that contractually, there was nothing to prevent people from not bidding all their vacation. I'm not saying I agree with that at all, but facts are still facts. Besides, 86% is in reality a fairly good compliance rate.

-
-No I'm not a tough guy just expressing my thoughts. Same as you. I do appreciate your full-term strike status but here you are a CA at CAL and speak up for them.

I'm speaking up for the issue that your attiude is just as dangerous as the "scab" mentality. It comprimises unity and unity
will be the only thing that gets us a decent contract. The attitude you express on this board are in fact not a true representation of the pilots at CAL.

-
No wonder they've taken over. As a 737 FO in IAH with a CP office and training department infested with SCABs you can't speak your mind at CAL without retrobution.

That is total BS. How about some examples? Did you go to professional standards? The union? HR? Funny, after I returned, I never once felt any retribution from the "scab infested training department or CP offices.

-
I will keep my record clean so I can leave and let the door hit me in the A$$ on the way out.

Run, don't walk. Besides, your demeanor and tone gives me the impression you may have a CRM problem with somebody, especially if there political or union views are not inline with yours.

-
-No it's apathy like yours taking up for the SCABS is why we will never be in control of our futures. I really don't blame our MEC chair from crossing because I do know his history I just don't believe any SCAB, whatever the reason, should be allowed to run or be elected to an ALPA Chair after crossing an ALPA picket line.

No it is reality. And I am willing to bet you are talking out of your ass about Jay's situation. PM me with the details and I can see if you are the real deal or just passing wind. If you have a problem with the C&BL's don't just whine, do something to change it. Besides, they were given amnesty and everything that goes along with it.

Also, eben though John was a striker, I think Jay willdo a much better job. See I don't let prejudices interfere with the ultimate goal of the best representation through those who are elected to MEC. As for the IAH LEC, well that's another story.

[/B][/QUOTE]

-
-I would be willing to bet that I've pointed out something that stuck you alittle and that is why you are upset with me. But for the record and for those reading. Answer these questions:

What I am upset with is your broad brushed view of the situation at CAL. Flying with numerous other cross sections of the seniority list I can point out examples all day. Like the ex Express guy I flew with last week who was proud of his 94 hour LV. Comments?
Also, I hasten to add that you made your choice to come to CAL knowing the history. I made a choice to return. Only one of us is complaining abut the situation and the other is focused on getting a decent contract. I get annoyed listening to the Martyrs
about 83 when in fact you probably were in grade school during those bleak years.

-

1-Did you bid all your vacation time which should have been 35-42 days in your case?

Ah lets see.....ummmmmm 42. As I have always bid max vacation due to my side business which infuriates Mugs and gives me nice toys to play with.

-

2-Have you picked up any open time since 10-01 (first furlough) that added to your line value directly? Not to be confused with trading that gave you more productivity but straight PU.

Nope. And thank you for noting the difference between a trade and a straight PU. Also, it has nothing to due with LV. On the widebody, it is very easy to exceed paycap every month. It is a question of picking up extra duty days over and above your awarded line. LV really has nothjing to due with the subject. Don't believe me? Look at CMPOOL and ask yourself where LV comes to in to play with staffing requirements.

-

3-What has been your average line value since 10-01?

I don't know, probably 65 hours or so. I try and drop 1 to 2 trips a month due to my other business.

-

4-How much is in your sick bank?

About 500 hours? Why? Are you suggesting I try and adjust my line by calling in sick? Sorry, this is a BS question and I don't play jeopardy with my career at CAL. Especially now.

-

Here are my answers:
1-yes, I bid all 5 weeks.
2-NO
3-61.3
4- 62:12.

Hmmm. 5 weeks? Ex express as a 737 F/O? I got to go look at my contract. Something doesn't smell right. But I might be wrong.

Did I pass the test?

 

[CALformerCALX]

Hmmm. 5 weeks? Ex express as a 737 F/O? I got to go look at my contract. Something doesn't smell right. But I might be wrong.

Did I pass the test?

Yes, you did. I liked your answers.

Yes, 11-24 years gives 35 days of vacation. And Excalx go all the way back to 2-1-88 hire dates. ExCalx keep longevity for time served. My vacation, pass travel,etc. are all predicated on total years from my CALX hire date. And ExCAL are all over the fo list from the 777EWR to the 737IAH. YOUR WRONG.

 

[Boeingman]

Yes, that is true. In total 370 didn't bid all vacation and 51 in that number were EX CALX out of the 1200 who have come from CALX either through the "transition" program or the "flo-thru" program.

Hmmm, pretty high percentage of those who didn't bid. The 1200 is insignificant. Apples and Oranges. I think I made my point though. It is dangerous to make broad assumptions as you have just yourself pointed out. Let us not forget some of my brothers I walked the line with didn't bid all their vacation either.

As far as a 90 hire not liking ex calx pilots that shows how ignorant they are of the history that caused that. Management hired them without telling them that there were CALX pilots still at CALX who would eventually come over and be senior. That was management not telling the truth becaue if they had most of those 90 hires would not have come to CAL knowing that. So for a 90 hire to blame anyone else but CAL is rediculous.

It was just an example and one that has led into some pretty heated discussions on some long flights. It is interesting to hear an exchange between a 90 hire F/O and an ex Express IRO (or vice versa).

So lets tell the whole story here if we are going to continue this debate publicly.

Honestly, I could care less about the 90 hire issue. That struck a nerve with you I see.

 

[Boeingman]

Yes, you did. I liked your answers.

Yes, 11-24 years gives 35 days of vacation. And Excalx go all the way back to 2-1-88 hire dates. ExCalx keep longevity for time served. My vacation, pass travel,etc. are all predicated on total years from my CALX hire date. And ExCAL are all over the fo list from the 777EWR to the 737IAH. YOUR WRONG.

So you got hired at CALEX when you were 22? Did I miss something somewhere that you said you were 33 years old?

You also said you were in grade school around the CAL strike, so to have 11 years longevity would be a least a 92 hire at CALEX.
The numbers don't add up.

You're starting to duck questions.

 

[CALformerCALX]

[/B]

Like the ex Express guy I flew with last week who was proud of his 94 hour LV. Comments?

[/B][/QUOTE]

Your the one who flew with the guy. Your the pro-CAL CA with the ALPA pin that has a star. What were your comments to him? I think that should be the question. If I was his CA I would have asked him why he is so proud of keeping fellow pilots on the street with his obvious greed.

And although I didn't quote this part I will respond. No I've never seen Prof Standards, the CP, or HR? for that matter. But my statement is true that you can't talk ALPA at the training center becaue noone over ther wears the pin and they are very open how they fell about ALPA. I ain't about to open my mouth. Hence the reason I have had no problems with management.

You are secure at CAL(senior) and you have money, lots of toys, side business and the overall good life. I'm happy for you and I'm glad you bid all your vacation-I really am, and I'm impressed with the low LV-truly. Thanks. But go back to 1983 when you didn't have all this and you and John Prater (hired 78), were on the picket line. If you had had laptops and the internet then I would have loved to see how pro-CAL you were then. I would bet your feelings were in line with mine now about this place. Otherwise you would not have been on strike.

 

[CALformerCALX]

So you got hired at CALEX when you were 22? Did I miss something somewhere that you said you were 33 years old?

Actually I had just turned 23, and I just turned 34 this past year. I never stated I was 33 here just stated I had 27 to go. Ok, it's actually 25.5 to go. You got me. The bid for vacation bidding that closed in sept just quaified me for 5 weeks because I had completed my 11 year just a few months before. Actually it was something like 51 days. Does that help in your search to figure out who I am. Gimme a break. Did I pass your test?