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jugement at 500 hrs vs 5000 hrs?

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When it comes to gauging a pilot’s experience we use hours because they are easy to measure, but they’re also a pretty poor indicator of one’s true skill level. There is also the issue of the type of flying you are doing – for example an ag pilot will require a different set of skills than a business jet driver. I remember some comments that Bob Hoover made at an airshow that I attended - he mentioned that he had given up instrument flying because he couldn't "master" both aerobatics and IFR flying. Either one or the other would have to suffer.

When it comes to measuring experience, there is a big difference between 5,000 hours of experience and 1 hour of experience repeated 5,000 times. Low time pilots and CFIs tend to fall into the latter category. For the lack of a better way of putting it, when I’m looking for an experienced pilot I look more at the type of flying s/he has been doing rather than the total amount of time that that particular person has in their log book. I’m looking for a pilot who has "been around the block" a few times. I’ve known 7,000 hour CFIs that haven’t been all the way around the block and I’ve flown with 2,500 hour pilots that have. Flying freight or charter, single-pilot, in clapped out Navajos, twin-Cessnas, or heaven forbid, twin-Beeches are definitely not glamour jobs, those guys quickly learn what it is to go around the block. A few years of that kind of flying and they're ready for almost anything else that comes along. It only gets easier from that point.

It's not that 1,000 hour commercial pilots and CFIs don't have a lot to contribute. They certainly do. Many of them, who are active CFIs, can fly circles around us when it comes to specific maneuvers that they might be teaching and performing on a daily basis and we might not have done for months or years. The issue is one of depth, not breath of knowledge. Pilots in this position (and every one of us old farts have been there) have a broad range of knowledge, it just doesn't run very deep. That's what experience does - deepens your knowledge and understanding. As you gain experience you don’t manipulate the controls better, you fly smarter. You not only know when it’s safe to say yes, you know when to say no. Professionals need to know how to do both. As a pro you won’t keep a job long if you constantly tell the boss no when, in fact the answer could have been yes. And you definitely won’t last very long in the business if you tell him yes when you should have said no.

I read somewhere that pilot experience and aircraft accidents seem to cluster at certain distinct points – 100 hours, 500 hours, 1000 hours, 3000 hours, 10000 hours, and (if I remember correctly) 20,000 hours. This occurs not only with total time, but also with “time in type”. Complacency is a killer - a 10000-hour pilot with 3000 hours in type needs to be careful that he doesn’t get complacent or he too, will get bit.

There is no magic way to get experience. You have to get it one hour at a time. It’s pretty easy to allow yourself to think that once you achieve a certain amount of time then you will be “high time” or experienced. Not true. When I had 100 hours, I realized that I really knew a lot about aviation. When I had 500 hours I was practically ready to be an ATP. When I had 1000 hours, well that was it, I knew it all - or so I thought. Here I am, with more flight time in my log book than I ever thought I would amass and I can't believe how much I don't know. Ya’ll be careful.


‘Sled
 
con-pilot said:
As AA717 said, "There are no wheat fields at 30W."
Iowa? If you pivot your self around a state that begins and ends with vowel, you'll only wind up singing the, "I'm my own grandpa" song.
 
Lead Sled said:
When it comes to gauging a pilot’s experience we use hours because they are easy to measure, but they’re also a pretty poor indicator of one’s true skill level. There is also the issue of the type of flying you are doing – for example an ag pilot will require a different set of skills than a business jet driver. I remember some comments that Bob Hoover made at an airshow that I attended - he mentioned that he had given up instrument flying because he couldn't "master" both aerobatics and IFR flying. Either one or the other would have to suffer.

When it comes to measuring experience, there is a big difference between 5,000 hours of experience and 1 hour of experience repeated 5,000 times. Low time pilots and CFIs tend to fall into the latter category. For the lack of a better way of putting it, when I’m looking for an experienced pilot I look more at the type of flying s/he has been doing rather than the total amount of time that that particular person has in their log book. I’m looking for a pilot who has "been around the block" a few times. I’ve known 7,000 hour CFIs that haven’t been all the way around the block and I’ve flown with 2,500 hour pilots that have. Flying freight or charter, single-pilot, in clapped out Navajos, twin-Cessnas, or heaven forbid, twin-Beeches are definitely not glamour jobs, those guys quickly learn what it is to go around the block. A few years of that kind of flying and they're ready for almost anything else that comes along. It only gets easier from that point.

It's not that 1,000 hour commercial pilots and CFIs don't have a lot to contribute. They certainly do. Many of them, who are active CFIs, can fly circles around us when it comes to specific maneuvers that they might be teaching and performing on a daily basis and we might not have done for months or years. The issue is one of depth, not breath of knowledge. Pilots in this position (and every one of us old farts have been there) have a broad range of knowledge, it just doesn't run very deep. That's what experience does - deepens your knowledge and understanding. As you gain experience you don’t manipulate the controls better, you fly smarter. You not only know when it’s safe to say yes, you know when to say no. Professionals need to know how to do both. As a pro you won’t keep a job long if you constantly tell the boss no when, in fact the answer could have been yes. And you definitely won’t last very long in the business if you tell him yes when you should have said no.

I read somewhere that pilot experience and aircraft accidents seem to cluster at certain distinct points – 100 hours, 500 hours, 1000 hours, 3000 hours, 10000 hours, and (if I remember correctly) 20,000 hours. This occurs not only with total time, but also with “time in type”. Complacency is a killer - a 10000-hour pilot with 3000 hours in type needs to be careful that he doesn’t get complacent or he too, will get bit.

There is no magic way to get experience. You have to get it one hour at a time. It’s pretty easy to allow yourself to think that once you achieve a certain amount of time then you will be “high time” or experienced. Not true. When I had 100 hours, I realized that I really knew a lot about aviation. When I had 500 hours I was practically ready to be an ATP. When I had 1000 hours, well that was it, I knew it all - or so I thought. Here I am, with more flight time in my log book than I ever thought I would amass and I can't believe how much I don't know. Ya’ll be careful.


‘Sled

How many hours you got in orbit/space. Got Platinum wings? :D Great post.
 
aussiefly said:
IMHO it really comes down to attitude. If you think that your at the point where your high time and experienced, thats when somethings turns up to bite you in the ass. Some of the best captains admit to mistakes and still say they try to learn something new everytime they fly.

Amen!
 
FN FAL said:
Iowa? If you pivot your self around a state that begins and ends with vowel, you'll only wind up singing the, "I'm my own grandpa" song.

Iowa is at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean about half way between the US and the UK? Fancy that.

You don't get out much do you.;)
 
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IFollowRoads said:
I'm not a high time guy, but I can tell you that before I got my commercial ticket I hadn't dealt with any "non normals." But between 300 and 1300+ hours, I've suffered a partial engine failure in a Piper Colt but was able to return to the airport; a bird strike at night that knocked my feet off the floor, it musta been an albatross or something; lost an alternator at night in a Gutless RG; had to pump the gear down in the same Gutless RG on a different flight; lost a governor in the CASA212 and had to shut the engine down; and found some ice one night in a Cessna 206 that left me begging for lower and an airport with an ILS like, now, quicker if able.

So theres the difference. The longer you fly, the more stuff you are going to run into. You work it out and put the experience in the 'ol toolbox for later. Helps keep you from pissin yer pants when something goes wrong. Although if that 206 hadn't started shucking that ice after I passed the OM I woulda ruined the seat cushions prolly...


No you will probably not experience any of these things again because as you build experience you will not even consider doing the crap you did before.. C172rg's with 10,000 hrs on them ifr at night in the Northeast, Twin cessna's flying checks in the winter with no deice, Caravans 8 hrs a night in canada and over the mountains, ratted out jumpplanes.. AHHHH the good ole days when i thought i knew it all..
 
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SA (situational awareness) is the one trait all 'good' pilots have in common. From ground ops, into the air, and back to the ground.

SA comes from innate ability and experience combined. Not all high time pilots are 'good' pilots. Either they never had good innate SA, or they've gotten so complacent their SA's deterioriated.

Fugawe
 
con-pilot said:
Iowa is at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean about half way between the US and the UK? Fancy that.

You don't get out much do you.;)

I hear tell of a monster Grouper out there!! I always tried to look for him when I crossed over 30W.........FL350 was just too high to see much though, stupid company would not go for off loading the freight and letting me carry the gas needed for a nice low pass on a grouper hunt!! Something about being a waste of a 747 and costing too much for a stupid fishing habit.........CEO's....they are killing this industry with their nickel and diming!!!!!!:mad: :D :D


You reckon I can talk the Navy into a Grouper hunt?? That P-3 can track subs...I wonder if it is any good at important stuff like trophy fish?
 
I fly wth a 3,500 hour captian and a 35,000 captian. On a normal day i would MUCH rather fly with the young guy but when the stuff hits the fan, it has the old guy has proved his worth, his kowledge and exprience are unquestionale.

However he is very unconserative and pretty much doesnt care unless there are a bunch of flashing red lights in the cockpit. and thats only after i wake him up. But he has done everything and can handle an emergancy
 
Hey Lead Sled

I am curious. Where does the pilot sit on the M-18?

Good post.
 

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