Judge rules in favor of NW FA's

[SusieSuperStew]

NWA/AFA Hotline Message 08/17/06
Good afternoon, this is your August 17th special hotline message for the Association of Flight Attendants at Northwest Airlines. MEC Communications Chair, Ricky Thornton reporting.

Today is a momentous day in legal history. We have set a precedent that will ring throughout labor movements for years to come!

Your AFA-CWA Legal Counsel along with your MEC leadership is pleased to inform you that Judge Gropper has ruled in our favor.

We have stood up to corporate greed and aggressively defended our rights. We have rejected 2 tentative agreements, sent a strong strike vote and now Judge Gropper has dealt us our 4th ACE.

We have not yet won the war, but we have won this battle. Our fight will continue to a contract that represents the sacrifices we have made and the contributions we continue to give in the name of our position as Professional Flight Attendants.

To celebrate our success, CHAOS activities will be occurring around the system tomorrow Friday August 18th. Call you LEC to confirm your involvement. There is strength in numbers.

This concludes your Special hotline message. This hotline message will be updated on Friday August 18th or sooner as additional events un-fold.

Stay tuned, Stay informed, Take care of your self, and each other

 

[BighitterLama]

A slight ray of hope for the entire industry.

 

[gnx99]

HaHa, awesome! NWA needs a few last minute 747 flights cancelled (CHAOS), just for their stupid money saving tips booklet. Condescending jack offs!

 

[Soverytired]

HaHa, awesome! NWA needs a few last minute 747 flights cancelled (CHAOS), just for their stupid money saving tips booklet. Condescending jack offs!

Yeah, I agree. Pre-booklet, I thought this CHAOS was a bad idea (and a bit selfish), but that stupid booklet ("don't be afraid to take something of the trash?!?!?") deserves some hard core union sh!T.

 

[Nindiri]

Not to be mean, but flight attendants are not exactly irreplaceable. A kid with a high school diploma can be trained in what, 3 or 4 weeks? I can't imagine professional pilots risking their jobs because some FA thinks he or she isn't making enough.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Willis - is that you?

I can't imagine professional pilots risking their jobs because some FA thinks he or she isn't making enough.

Okay, that deserves a WHAT?!? for several reasons.

 

[XJohXJ]

Well, there's something like 8 or 10 thousand of them, and not everyone passes training, and there is mandatory IOE for newhires, and the pilots have backed the FA's right to strike, so I think the FA's have a few nudges in their favor. They aren't invincible, but the tides maybe heading a bit more in their favor.


GOOD LUCK NWA FA'S!!!!

 

[Spinn555]

More NWA FA's will cross any picket line than AMFA mechanics did. Low voter turn-out for the last TA is what is backing this guess, on my part.

The FA's just aren't as unified as they should be, in order to have any effect.

 

[Nindiri]

Okay, that deserves a WHAT?!? for several reasons.

It's just a general observation. I wish the flight attendants well, but no more so than any other employee group such as gate agents, rampies, or for that matter the manager at the McDonalds in the concourse. I certainly wouldn't support them if they started pulling that CHAOS crap.

 

[PCL_128]

Not to be mean, but flight attendants are not exactly irreplaceable. A kid with a high school diploma can be trained in what, 3 or 4 weeks? I can't imagine professional pilots risking their jobs because some FA thinks he or she isn't making enough.

NWA can't survive a strike for 3 or 4 days, let alone 3 or 4 weeks. The word is that NWA only has 1500 trained FA SCABs. For a full schedule to operate for any significant amount of time, NWA needs to have at least 7 or 8 thousand FAs. They may not be as unified as some would hope, but you certainly won't see enough SCABs cross the line to make up for the thousands of FAs that they need to keep the schedule operating. This is a major victory for the FAs. I would wager that a new TA with much improved pay and QOL is short to follow as Steenland and his cronies realize that their ploy has finally failed.

All NWA pilots should take notice. This could have been you! You didn't have to settle for that POS TA. Now the FAs will likely get a much improved deal, and you will still be stuck with that horrendous abomination of a contract for years to come.

 

[ReverseSensing]

More NWA FA's will cross any picket line than AMFA mechanics did. Low voter turn-out for the last TA is what is backing this guess, on my part.

The FA's just aren't as unified as they should be, in order to have any effect.

Be that as it may, the important thing about this decision is the precedent, such as it is. It is my understanding that this is the first time a judge has balanced provisions of the RLA and bankruptcy law. Until now, the self-help rights of workers under bankruptcy-imposed terms was a legal unknown.

 

[QXpeon]

It's just a general observation. I wish the flight attendants well, but no more so than any other employee group such as gate agents, rampies, or for that matter the manager at the McDonalds in the concourse. I certainly wouldn't support them if they started pulling that CHAOS crap.

At least they have the balls to fight your battles for you.....

 

[Nindiri]

NWA can't survive a strike for 3 or 4 days, let alone 3 or 4 weeks.

And that is why I said I couldn't imagine pilots risking their jobs to support a bunch of unhappy flight attendants who want to make lots of money for being a waitress in the sky. I hope the FA's get the best contract they can, but if I was a NW pilot and the FA's started that CHAOS crap, I would hope that the company would replace their butts.

 

[PCL_128]

And that is why I said I couldn't imagine pilots risking their jobs to support a bunch of unhappy flight attendants who want to make lots of money for being a waitress in the sky. I hope the FA's get the best contract they can, but if I was a NW pilot and the FA's started that CHAOS crap, I would hope that the company would replace their butts.

People that think like this are the reason this profession is in a shambles. It's time for people to stick up for themselves instead of being railroaded by a bunch of overpaid desk-jockies up in Eagan.

 

[Nindiri]

Uh huh, sure. I'm really going to back a strike by FA's so they can make 75K for doing a job any high school graduate could do. Maybe next I can risk my job for the janitor who wants 50K a year.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Uh huh, sure. I'm really going to back a strike by FA's so they can make 75K for doing a job any high school graduate could do. Maybe next I can risk my job for the janitor who wants 50K a year.

Wow! Are you really this much of a jackass, or is this just an act? Hate to break it to you, but with about a year of training, any high school graduate can do your job, too. You probably don't fraternize with the rabble of the world, like FA's, janitors, garbage men, etc. After all, your uniform is cooler and you've got more knobs and switches. Sheesh.

 

[BighitterLama]

Nice. I'm better than you are crap! What.... did not Mommy and Daddy praise you enough?

 

[Nindiri]

No, I'm afraid you're wrong. That year of training is very expensive and is followed by at least a couple years of low-paid time building. Add to that the fact that very few pilots get hired at a major without a college degree.

On the other hand, just about anyone with a high school diploma is qualified to get hired as an FA.

So yeah, I'm kind of cynical about FA's risking the liquidation of my company with their strikes just because they want to be paid like a pilot. I hope they get as good a contract as they can, but not at the potential cost of my job.

 

[Nindiri]

Nice. I'm better than you are crap! What.... did not Mommy and Daddy praise you enough?

Heh. This is why pilots historically make bad airline owners.

 

[gnx99]

Everyone seems to forget that all this "over paid" crap is 100% the fault of the company (any airline). They are the ones who agreed to the existing contracts in the first place.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

The good news is for other airlines is that if NWA dies, the large shrink in capacity will force fares up at other airlines as they pull aircraft off routes to cover for the loss of NWA. Some of the routes will see almost a 100% or more fare increase.

 

[ReverseSensing]

No, I'm afraid you're wrong. That year of training is very expensive and is followed by at least a couple years of low-paid time building. Add to that the fact that very few pilots get hired at a major without a college degree.

All you've really asserted is that it's expensive to become a pilot, that one has to pay dues, and that to go beyond the regional job, a degree is helpful. I stand by my assertion that any high school graduate, with enough money, can be trained in a year to do your job. Get off your high horse. The paralax from up there is distorting your view of reality.

On the other hand, just about anyone with a high school diploma is qualified to get hired as an FA.

But it's still a s*ittier job than yours and deserves at least a modicum of respect, especially from someone who ought to know better. Shame on you for being such a snob. Did your parents raise you that way, or did you learn that later?

So yeah, I'm kind of cynical about FA's risking the liquidation of my company with their strikes just because they want to be paid like a pilot. I hope they get as good a contract as they can, but not at the potential cost of my job.

Cynical isn't the description I'd use. More like naive. If you really think that the cause of your woes is flight attendants sticking up for themselves, you are not paying enough attention: except perhaps to your own needs and feelings.

 

[PCL_128]

The good news is for other airlines is that if NWA dies, the large shrink in capacity will force fares up at other airlines as they pull aircraft off routes to cover for the loss of NWA. Some of the routes will see almost a 100% or more fare increase.

Northwest Airlines isn't going anywhere. Steenland and the rest of his scumbag cronies will back down like the cowards that they really are now that someone has finally had the backbone to stick up to them. All of the liquidation rhetoric you've heard is nothing but posturing. Just like McClain and 2/3 of the pilot group, you've let yourself become frightened by these petty thieves in management.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Northwest Airlines isn't going anywhere. Steenland and the rest of his scumbag cronies will back down like the cowards that they really are now that someone has finally had the backbone to stick up to them. All of the liquidation rhetoric you've heard is nothing but posturing. Just like McClain and 2/3 of the pilot group, you've let yourself become frightened by these petty thieves in management.

Don't be surprised if you see some other name painted on our aircraft in two weeks.

 

[PCL_128]

Don't be surprised if you see some other name painted on our aircraft in two weeks.

Are you referring to someone purchasing the aircraft after a liquidation (highly unlikely, borderline impossible in my opinion), or a merger with Delta (very likely in my opinion, but takes much longer than 2 weeks)?

 

[skydivinguy]

Yeah, you NW tools sure showed solidarity with the mechanics didn't ya?

 

[GidgetDog]

Yikes

That is by far THE ugliest avatar I have ever seen!

 

[BighitterLama]

Ditto on the avatar...I did laugh though

 

[Nindiri]

All you've really asserted is that it's expensive to become a pilot, that one has to pay dues, and that to go beyond the regional job, a degree is helpful. I stand by my assertion that any high school graduate, with enough money, can be trained in a year to do your job. Get off your high horse. The paralax from up there is distorting your view of reality.



But it's still a s*ittier job than yours and deserves at least a modicum of respect, especially from someone who ought to know better. Shame on you for being such a snob. Did your parents raise you that way, or did you learn that later?



Cynical isn't the description I'd use. More like naive. If you really think that the cause of your woes is flight attendants sticking up for themselves, you are not paying enough attention: except perhaps to your own needs and feelings.

We need a yawning icon here.

You assume way too much. You seem to think that because I don't endorse CHAOS tactics that I don't respect FA's. Whatever. Hold out for FA's to make 75K if you're so determined; I'm sure the company will be happy to take it out of the pilots' pay.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Uh, Houston?

And that is why I said I couldn't imagine pilots risking their jobs to support a bunch of unhappy flight attendants

Just what do you think the pilot's role in CHAOS is?