Jude rules against company in Mesaba case

[JumpCaptain]

I smell the smoke of burning jobs. Savor now. You will lose jobs and, in the end, your future. Businesses can not continue to operate at a loss....

I think they realize the potential damage this may cause the company, but if the pay drops that much, none of them will want to work there anyway.

There comes a point where you have to realize that you are not working simply to keep "the company" in business, but to put food on your table as well.

Either the company will find another way to come up with the cash or they'll fold and the pilots will all go out and find better jobs anyway.

Keep it up guys!!!

 

[XJohXJ]

I think they realize the potential damage this may cause the company, but if the pay drops that much, none of them will want to work there anyway.

There comes a point where you have to realize that you are not working simply to keep "the company" in business, but to put food on your table as well.

Either the company will find another way to come up with the cash or they'll fold and the pilots will all go out and find better jobs anyway.

Keep it up guys!!!

Exactly! Thank you for a good summary of the XJ situation. Our pay is already low (very low for FO's). It's just not worth it for any less. Part of the definition of poverty is that it fails to put food on the table. Imagine the publicity when pilots go to the welfare and food stamp offices in full uniform.

 

[Holy Shiite]

Yeah.. BobbyBI is just another screen name for the D'angelHOE. lets see now, the BI-plane signed on to this board 2 months ago and his posts do nothing but bash the union and support his BI-buddy D'angelHOE. Neither of these screen names is an Airline Pilot so don't waste your time with them. These guys are management scum trying to get their jollies on this message board. Go crawl back under your rock now loser(s). HS

 

[suupah]

Yeah.. BobbyBI is just another screen name for the D'angelHOE. lets see now, the BI-plane signed on to this board 2 months ago and his posts do nothing but bash the union and support his BI-buddy D'angelHOE. Neither of these screen names is an Airline Pilot so don't waste your time with them. These guys are management scum trying to get their jollies on this message board. Go crawl back under your rock now loser(s). HS

Isn't at least a huge portion of MEsaba's financial woes directly caused by getting screwed by NWA for payments? If memory serves correctly they didnt' get paid for a while.

All i know is that mesaba seems to fly pretty full airplanes so there is def. money changing hands.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

I just got back from a trip this morning... Morale is high but also reserved because it seems that mangement will refile the 1113(c) motion again, addressing the issues stated in the ruling...

 

[Workin'Stiff]

All i know is that mesaba seems to fly pretty full airplanes so there is def. money changing hands.

We're fee for departure, so the loads we carry are irrelevent to the amount of money we make.

 

[JumpCaptain]

Aren't all the contracted regionals paid gear up?

 

[Workin'Stiff]

The latest....

MESABA AIRLINES
May 18, 2006
Dear Colleague:
U.S. Bankruptcy Court Judge Gregory F. Kishel has denied the Company’s motion to
reject its collective bargaining agreements. It’s very important to note the judge states
that Mesaba’s core business assumptions, including the 19.4 percent labor cost
concessions over 6 years, are “reasonable and necessary.” He also states that if the unions
do not recognize the dire financial condition of the company soon, Mesaba can re-file the
motion and it will be heard promptly.
Judge Kishel denied the 1113(c) motion only due to the company’s failure to provide a
working financial model to the unions and its workforce attrition model. These limited
issues either have been addressed already or will be shortly. What is clear from Judge
Kishel’s well-reasoned and thoughtful opinion is that Mesaba is in dire financial straits
and needs cost restructuring. [Judge Kishel’s full opinion is available on
www.MyMesaba.com under Key Bankruptcy Court Documents.]
While we’re disappointed in the delay, Mesaba will continue to meet with its unions to
address their concerns about the bankruptcy and to continue to seek consensual
agreements. However, if we are not able to reach consensual agreements with the unions,
the judge’s ruling permits Mesaba to address the issues he raised regarding the working
financial model and the attrition model and return to court quickly to resubmit the
1113(c) motion.
It’s quite simple, ruling or no ruling, if we cannot finalize the cost reductions, we cannot
secure the core Saab business. If we cannot secure the core Saab business, we cannot
compete for jets. If we cannot compete for jets, we cannot avert the complete downsizing.
As a result, we will continue to try to reach consensual agreements at the same time we
are redoubling our efforts in court.
You have my promise that I will keep you fully informed as Mesaba continues to work
through the bankruptcy process. Thank you for our professionalism and attention to the
safety and reliability of our flights during this challenging time.


Sincerely,
John Spanjers
President & COO

 

[JumpCaptain]

How childish! In other words, "Don't get excited yet, we can still get you!".

Yeah, that's what the Seahawks said half way through the Superbowl.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

The latest....

It’s quite simple, ruling or no ruling, if we cannot finalize the cost reductions, we cannot
secure the core Saab business. If we cannot secure the core Saab business, we cannot
compete for jets. If we cannot compete for jets, we cannot avert the complete downsizing.
As a result, we will continue to try to reach consensual agreements at the same time we
are redoubling our efforts in court.
You have my promise that I will keep you fully informed as Mesaba continues to work
through the bankruptcy process. Thank you for our professionalism and attention to the
safety and reliability of our flights during this challenging time.


Sincerely,
John Spanjers
President & COO

Moreover, is the company going to accept ALPA's latest offer? If there is no need for immediate concessions, I suppose XJ is willing to play the game long and hard. How long are you willing to fight because the bosses here at NWA are willing to make mesaba a 10+ year project.

 

[doh]

This is excellent news! Now the real bargaining may begin. Good faith and a fair deal.:beer:

 

[100LL... Again!]

A distinction that some fools on this board always omit is that concessionary contracts at a major are VERY different than such contracts at a regional.

If Mesaba can't stay in business at their current pay rates, perhaps it would be better for them to cease operations. "Live to fight another day" only works if you can live on what you make. That philosophy can arguably be applies to mainline concessionary cuts.

Unfortunate as it might be, mainline pilots still make a livable wage after cuts. Most regional pilots would be very close to retail-employee pay after any cut of significance.

Kudos to the Mesaba pilots for winning this battle. I would not recommend relaxing for more than a day or two, because I'm certain that the highly-paid staff of company lawyers is gaming out their next move (if it has not been games out already).

YPF and biplane billy are out to lunch on this one.
I get the feeling that they would be willing to work for minimum wage to keep an airline afloat.

The previous poster is correct - this is a "bankruptcy-in-name-only".

YPF & BB need to remove their tête from their postérieur.

 

[JetLinkin Park]

"Live to fight another day" only works if you can live on what you make.

Those may be the most prolific and inspiring words ever spoken in this forum. They should be the battle cry for every person who operates at a regional feed.

Don't believe the hype girls and boys. Either make a comfortable wage or shut the doors and move on with life. Home Depot is hiring, and it won't be a pay cut.

The decisions at both Mesaba and Comair are indications that the bottom has been reached. We can take no more blows to our livelihood.

 

[saabservant]

AMEN to that!

 

[ex j-41]

Imagine the publicity when pilots go to the welfare and food stamp offices in full uniform.

All the public sees is that you get paid $24/hr and work only 75 hrs a month.
That is a great wage for only working part time....

Didn't the Airlines do a great job of misleading the public on how much we make?

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

An important thing to note is that Kishel said the big reason he denied the 1113c was because Mesaba didn't provide data to support their claims of needing 19.4%.

Well, guess what - if the company does start providing the required data to meet the 1113c again, they will have to show that they never needed that mythic 19.4% in the first place.

It's makes me wonder if they'll file again. They'll probably start dangling the carrots very soon.

It's a victory for the regionals, finally! Maybe not the war, but a good battle. I tell ya, it feels good not to roll over.

 

[Northern Lights]

The latest....

MESABA AIRLINES
May 18, 2006
Dear Colleague:
U.S. Bankruptcy Court Judge Gregory F. Kishel has denied the Company’s motion to
reject its collective bargaining agreements. It’s very important to note the judge states
that Mesaba’s core business assumptions, including the 19.4 percent labor cost
concessions over 6 years, are “reasonable and necessary.” He also states that if the unions
do not recognize the dire financial condition of the company soon, Mesaba can re-file the
motion and it will be heard promptly.
Judge Kishel denied the 1113(c) motion only due to the company’s failure to provide a
working financial model to the unions and its workforce attrition model. These limited
issues either have been addressed already or will be shortly. What is clear from Judge
Kishel’s well-reasoned and thoughtful opinion is that Mesaba is in dire financial straits
and needs cost restructuring. [Judge Kishel’s full opinion is available on
www.MyMesaba.com under Key Bankruptcy Court Documents.]
While we’re disappointed in the delay, Mesaba will continue to meet with its unions to
address their concerns about the bankruptcy and to continue to seek consensual
agreements. However, if we are not able to reach consensual agreements with the unions,
the judge’s ruling permits Mesaba to address the issues he raised regarding the working
financial model and the attrition model and return to court quickly to resubmit the
1113(c) motion.
It’s quite simple, ruling or no ruling, if we cannot finalize the cost reductions, we cannot
secure the core Saab business. If we cannot secure the core Saab business, we cannot
compete for jets. If we cannot compete for jets, we cannot avert the complete downsizing.
As a result, we will continue to try to reach consensual agreements at the same time we
are redoubling our efforts in court.
You have my promise that I will keep you fully informed as Mesaba continues to work
through the bankruptcy process. Thank you for our professionalism and attention to the
safety and reliability of our flights during this challenging time.


Sincerely,
John Spanjers
President & COO

Ugh!

That is EXACTLY what I was expecting from JS. As I was reading it I thought that it was a joke at first, because it was what we've become used to! His memos are like Mad Libs -- Just change a few words each time to see what you get.

My furlough letter was in the same style. He didn't even bother to sign it.

 

[TAWS]

I love how this POS states that they are "redoubling their efforts" (to F$#% you) in court, then thanks everyone for their professionalism! What a TOOL!!
I don't think they have any interest in securing SAAB business - those things are old, permanently dirty and unpopular with pax (the guys at XJ do a great job of operating them safely and MX keeps them in the air, but in the summer the pax are goin' to cook inside them!!

 

[WSurf]

Watch the United Clip!!! Talk about a piece of crap CEO!!! Off the subject but good viewing how our industry treats its employee's!!

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/retirement/view/

 

[Workin'Stiff]

As they do every single summer...

 

[xjlifer]

Aaa for the good old days when there was maybe 2 working air carts and if that FANTASTIC supplemental air was working on your Slaab...then no air for you!

Wonder what the hottest temp in the cabin ever recorded is? I personally saw 125......remember to refill up those water bottles boys!

 

[D'Angelo]

Basically if you let ALPO take your company down your just throwing all those dues you paid down the toilet. You pay ALPO to keep your job not to start all over at 1st year pay at another airline. ALPO must have a really good pied piper. He does good at getting pilots all angry and ready to jump off a cliff when told to do so.

 

[D'Angelo]

On a side note when guys do decide to take concessions think of it this way. Just less money ALPO can tax outta your paycheck!! :beer: