Jobs with non-specific degrees

[scuzzer23]

What kind of jobs can one fall back on if they have a degree in aviation? In other words, what do most liberal arts majors do after they graduate? I can only think of a few off the top of my head:

Grocery store manager
other retail industry management
substitute teacher
cafeteria lunch lady

 

[psysicx]

Thats not really true.A degree is helpful in a specific subject but you can get jobs.A Pharm Rep doesn't need any kind of degree and they make good money.I know a history major who works for a bank.There are endless opportunities.And as the saying goes its not what you know its who you know.

 

[royroper]

i've found that in the aviation job market, there are many pilots that grew up with the idea of "yeah! planes are neat, I'll be a pilot" but never bothered to consider the skills necessary to interview, deal with people or empathize, work as a team, understand customer service or management. Kind of gave me the image of the computer nerd of the 70's-80's, that everyone thought had no social skills.

 

[avbug]

What kind of jobs can one fall back on if they have a degree in aviation?

How about anything you're qualified to do? Are you suggesting that without a specialized degree, one is incapable of performing a job? Come, now.

I don't have a degree in management, but I can easily fill any management position. I don't have a degree in most hands-on jobs, but can do many of them, from aircraft maintenance to inudstrial welding, to painting, to building construction. Come to think of it, most people dont' have degrees in any of those areas, but make a life-long career doing them.

I dont' have a degree in sales, but have worked in sales. I don't have a law enforcement degree, but have worked in law enforcement. I don't have a fire science degree, but have a fair amount of experience doing fire.

Are suggesting that a pilot with a degree in aviation is consigned to flipping hamburgers for the rest of his life? How utterly ridiculous! A degree has nothing to do with capability in any form. It has to do with tagging a resume and filling a box, but one can acquire most any job without all the boxes filled, and I've hired into a lot of jobs with no resume. Including substitute teacher.

Having a specialized degree is pertinent to specialized jobs; an engineering degree for an engineering assignment, a medical degree for a doctor. But to suggest that one who holds a degree in aviation is limited in scope or potential is a false assertion. Further, one who does not hold a degree is not necessarily limited but in certain areas within certain circles. A lot of folks are alive and kicking out there without a degree...a lot of multi millionairs don't have one. Certainly one should seek out all the accreditation and accolades one can, but a degree does not mean one is educated, wise, or intelligent...or skilled for any particular line of work.

 

[bobbysamd]

Aviation degree job opportunities

What kind of jobs can one fall back on if they have a degree in aviation? In other words, what do most liberal arts majors do after they graduate? I can only think of a few off the top of my head:

Grocery store manager
other retail industry management
substitute teacher
cafeteria lunch lady

For openers, I have heard of people with aviation degrees who get civil service jobs in airport management. People with aviation degrees can get work in aviation management. Further, an aviation degree-holder meets any classified ad or job listing that states, "college degree required or preferred." So, take a look at your local classifieds and check other job listings, and you will find a bunch of other jobs besides those you listed to determine jobs for which you, as an aviation degree-holder, can apply.

As far as advanced education or vocational programs go, I have heard of people with all kinds of majors being admitted to medical school. Same for law school. I cannot speak for every master's program, but I would bet that any kind of four-year degree qualifies one for such programs. To give you a lesser example, the only education requirement needed for entry into an ABA-approved paralegal school is a four-year degree, in any major.

 

[Resume Writer]

A Pharm Rep doesn't need any kind of degree and they make good money.

Psycicx,

You don't need a degree for this job? Let me give you a few links:

http://www.medzilla.com/cgi-bin/viewmzmljob?ID=wj76033.htm&search_pattern=pharmaceutical%20sales%20representative

http://www.medzilla.com/cgi-bin/viewmzmljob?ID=wj76033.htm&search_pattern=pharmaceutical%20sales%20representative

http://www.medzilla.com/cgi-bin/viewmzmljob?ID=wj70859.htm&search_pattern=pharmaceutical%20sales%20representative

http://www.medzilla.com/cgi-bin/viewmzmljob?ID=wj77785.htm&search_pattern=pharmaceutical%20sales%20representative

http://www.medzilla.com/cgi-bin/viewmzmljob?ID=wj77392.htm&search_pattern=pharmaceutical%20sales%20representative

Those are just the first five different companies on Medzilla.com, which is a site that specializes in the pharm field. Every one of them requires a degree. Most of them require sales experience also.

It is a very competitive field. I work with Pharmaceutical Sales Rep recruiters on a daily basis, and only those that have the qualifications get even a "chance" to talk to the recruiters I work with.

Sorry if anyone got their hopes up about the no degree statement!

Kathy

 

[psysicx]

What I meant was it doesn't matter what kind of degree.My mother works in the Pharm field and most people start out at Pfizer.

 

[Resume Writer]

What I meant was it doesn't matter what kind of degree.My mother works in the Pharm field and most people start out at Pfizer.

Sorry, it looked like you were saying that they did not need a degree. You are correct. I have had people with many different degrees get pharm sales jobs. Most of the jobs want some kind of science or business degree.

I have had people start out at all kinds of different companies. Pfizer is one, Aventis is another, Cordis (Johnson & Johnson) is another, Allergen is another, Merck is one more and then there is also Eli Lily. Those are just the major ones.

It is kind of a running joke amongst resume writers that we get at least one person a week who wants to do pharmaceutical sales. Most of them do not do their research on what is required for the job.

The other position I get a lot of requests for is a CRA (Clinical Research Associate). These are the people that direct the drug trials, ensure compliance with the FDA, get the doctors on board with the clinical trial and make sure all the release forms are documented. They have a very difficult job and most of the positions are hired as contract labor through a temp agency. I have one client who has been temp in this position for two years and they want to extend her contract for another year - no bennies.

Kathy

 

[Goose Egg]

...to suggest that one who holds a degree in aviation is limited in scope or potential is a false assertion.

Frankly, I couldn't agree more. I'm a little sick of hearing how useless an aviation degree is. It can't be any worse than some of the other things out there. I'm standing here to tell you that there have been so many opportunities open up for me just because I have a degree, any degree.

I have heard of people with aviation degrees who get civil service jobs in airport management. People with aviation degrees can get work in aviation management. Further, an aviation degree-holder meets any classified ad or job listing that states, "college degree required or preferred."

If I couldn't fly, I'd love to be an airport manager.


-Goose

 

[psysicx]

Hey resume writer tell your client to check out Quintilies.My mom worked there and the do CRA.

 

[Resume Writer]

Hey resume writer tell your client to check out Quintilies.My mom worked there and the do CRA.

Where are they located? My clients mostly live in NJ and are not willing to relocate for a CRA job.

Kathy

 

[psysicx]

I know that every pharm company has a office in NJ.I will find out its a good company.

 

[Vik]

Your list is pathetic but not untrue. My biggest issue with aviation degrees is how square the students come out. Yes, its an aviation degree, but the student needs to be well rounded. Even die-hard engineering schools require the student to take arts, english lit, languages, and that sort of thing.

I guess if I had an aviation degree, I would start learning something new to add to my resume. Learn something, get some certifications, that sort of thing.

What makes an aviation degree different than engineering for example, is that people are there because they LOVE it. They will be up to their armpits in flying anyway, so there is no reason to write 20 page reports on runway incursions and what not. If you talk to engineering students, they were there because their parents forced them to do it, they are there for the starting salary, they are there for job security, etc. Very few are there because they LOVE it.

Aviation colleges should realize this and put in more general ed, and less aviation.

Anyway, I've tried to get my point across before but then all the Driddle and UNDies get on my case about how much they rock and kick a$$ and can easily get GREAT jobs if they are furloughed.

What kind of jobs can one fall back on if they have a degree in aviation? In other words, what do most liberal arts majors do after they graduate? I can only think of a few off the top of my head:

Grocery store manager
other retail industry management
substitute teacher
cafeteria lunch lady

 

[scuzzer23]

What makes an aviation degree different than engineering for example, is that people are there because they LOVE it. They will be up to their armpits in flying anyway, so there is no reason to write 20 page reports on runway incursions and what not. If you talk to engineering students, they were there because their parents forced them to do it, they are there for the starting salary, they are there for job security, etc. Very few are there because they LOVE it.

Not necessarily true. I would love to take engineering classes. Some of my favorite classes in college were aerodynamics, physics, etc. Your point about the level of motivation of engineering vs. flying is right on though. I have talked with some (a very small sampling) engineers in the field that don't like their job. I guess it takes a certain type of personality. Only problem for me is most schools that have engineering programs are too costly for me, even at state schools.

 

[Vik]

I don't doubt there are people that love engineering. I'm talking in general. I went to engineering school and most people aren't there because they love it.

State schools are costlier than UND and ERAU? or is there another school that has an aviation degree that you're looking into?

Not necessarily true. I would love to take engineering classes. Some of my favorite classes in college were aerodynamics, physics, etc. Your point about the level of motivation of engineering vs. flying is right on though. I have talked with some (a very small sampling) engineers in the field that don't like their job. I guess it takes a certain type of personality. Only problem for me is most schools that have engineering programs are too costly for me, even at state schools.

 

[Goose Egg]

Yes, its an aviation degree, but the student needs to be well rounded. Even die-hard engineering schools require the student to take arts, english lit, languages, and that sort of thing.

Actually, I ended up taking quite a bit of art and english as part of the GE requirements of my aviation degree. And I enjoyed those classes immensely. I also took more than a few business/economics/accounting classes, several "hard" science classes, some social science, and some technical/trades classes just for good measure. Nevermind that I can now get MS Office to do just about anything I want it to.

In addition, I received not only my private through CFI, but detailed classes on meteorology, flight physiology, aviation law, aviation management, 737-200 systems, human factors, air traffic control, aviation insurance and risk management, long range navigation, etc., etc., etc.

If that's not well rounded, nothing is. Try gettin' that at the FBO!

(And all that for less than $20K of student loans. State schools rock!)

Your point about the level of motivation of engineering vs. flying is right on though. I have talked with some (a very small sampling) engineers in the field that don't like their job.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. I have never once met a more whiney group of individuals than pilots (with the possible exception of academics). And I have met more than a few that dislike their jobs. People put so much time, effort, and money into their aviation career only to discover that flying is a job and they actually have to work for a living, and that pilots aren't actually rockstars--it's quite a shock to them. I think the reason that so much bitterness prevails in the industry is because people go into it with unrealistic expectations.

Anyway, I disagree with most of what PilotYip says about college, but his signature contains some wisdom; fly because you love it. If you are in it for the money, you may be disappointed.

-Goose

 

[bobbysamd]

Aviation degree v. non-related degree

Actually, I ended up taking quite a bit of art and english as part of the GE requirements of my aviation degree. And I enjoyed them immensely. I also took more than a few business/economics/accounting classes, several "hard" science classes, some social science, and some technical/trades classes just for good measure. Nevermind that I can now get MS Office to do just about anything I want it to.

In addition, I received not only my private through CFI, but detailed classes on meteorology, flight physiology, aviation law, aviation management, 737-200 systems, human factors, air traffic control, aviation insurance and risk management, long range navigation, etc., etc., etc.

If that's not well rounded, nothing is.

(And all that for less than $20K of student loans. State schools rock!)

I would agree. Your program sounds very similar to the Aeronautical Science program at Riddle, which probably costs four times what you paid. Perhaps the only difference is ERAU students took a general course in systems as opposed to a specific airframe. The fact that they took a systems course was a real plus. Also, they had a hard requirement to take Technical Writing, which, I thought, was great.

One point to add in the aviation degree v. not debate. Some people believe that a non-related degree provides a Plan B, but not necessarily. Unless one obtains some work experience in that degree field it may not necessarily provide a fall-back. If you look at job ads and listings, they usually require experience to go with the degree. If you have earned a non-related degree and went on to fly, your credential will be somewhat stale and finding work in your field may not be as easy as you think.

The same holds true in non-degree certification programs. For example, I earned my paralegal certificate ten years ago. I looked for work, and most every job listing demanded at least two years of experience; some more. My paralegal school had tried to push down my throat that 98% of its graduates were hired upon graduation. I knew better, having recently been on the other side of the desk as a flight instructor for 141 schools!! I wasn't having any luck finding entry-level work. I eventually got my foot in the door by responding to an ad looking for someone to "assist a very busy attorney." The job really wasn't for a paralegal, but the firm interviewed me anyway and eventually hired me. It took me three months to get hired, and I saw people at the school's career center who had graduated six months before and were still looking. Perhaps the exception might be certain jobs in the medical field, especially for nurses.

 

[pilotyip]

Avbug no degree fan?

Did I see Avbug support the notion you can succeed without a degree?

 

[bobbysamd]

Exception

Did I see Avbug support the notion you can succeed without a degree?

I would interpret his comment in its full context:

Further, one who does not hold a degree is not necessarily limited but in certain areas within certain circles. A lot of folks are alive and kicking out there without a degree...a lot of multi millionairs don't have one. Certainly one should seek out all the accreditation and accolades one can, but a degree does not mean one is educated, wise, or intelligent...or skilled for any particular line of work.

Here again, there are exceptions to every rule. The key word is "exception." Chances for success are better by going with the rule and not the "exception." Then, there are those rugged individualists who are determined to do it their way or not at all. If they succeed, more power to them, but, again, the word of the day is "exception." I would submit that trying to be an entry-level rugged individualist (without the degree) in this pilot hiring jungle is a great way to fail, at worst, or, at best, not to reach your goal.

 

[ohiopilot]

I went to college to be a Spanish teacher, taught for a bit over a year and am now an account manager for a security company doing marketing as well.

It was WHO I knew to get out of the hell called "teaching HS". Jobs like this, you just learn as you go. A degree in the real world means JACK once you land the job.

 

[pilotyip]

Chances for success?

If 95% of pilots seeking jobs have degrees and 50% of them get their dream job in the aviation world, is that success? If the 5% of the pilots seeking jobs do not have degrees and 90% of them get their dream job of just flying an airplane, it that success? Who defines success, the degree does not define success, success come from the mind of the individual, not statistics. I have seen too many non-degreed pilots with big grins on their faces go to SWA, JB, AirTran, and Spirit. Who can tell me these pilots are not successful, who can tell this is not a viable career path.

 

[bobbysamd]

As always, this degree discussion goes in circles

I have seen too many non-degreed pilots with big grins on their faces go to SWA, JB, AirTran, and Spirit. Who can tell me these pilots are not successful, who can tell this is not a viable career path.

You mention only four companies. And, how many with degrees and big grins have been hired at these airlines?? I would submit that more with degrees and big grins have been hired than those without. And, I would submit that the degree still gave those individuals an advantage.

It's a given that droves of pilots, degreed or not, are breaking down the doors to get into Southwest. I'd bet it's similar with the other companies. Therefore, as has been stated innumerable times before, one needs every advantage and the best credentials possible to gain attention at these companies, and all the others. If non-degreed pilots are hired at these companies, fine. But if it were me, I would want to have every advantage at my disposal before I apply and not artificially disadvantage myself. Therefore, if the degree keeps me in step with my competition, common sense alone will tell that's what I need.

Go to this link for some more, recent, circular discussion on this issue.

 

[Vik]

Sounds like a good program.

I'm sure what Bobbysamd is saying is true, but not from what I've heard from ERAU and UND grads.

Actually, I ended up taking quite a bit of art and english as part of the GE requirements of my aviation degree. And I enjoyed those classes immensely. I also took more than a few business/economics/accounting classes, several "hard" science classes, some social science, and some technical/trades classes just for good measure. Nevermind that I can now get MS Office to do just about anything I want it to.

In addition, I received not only my private through CFI, but detailed classes on meteorology, flight physiology, aviation law, aviation management, 737-200 systems, human factors, air traffic control, aviation insurance and risk management, long range navigation, etc., etc., etc.

If that's not well rounded, nothing is. Try gettin' that at the FBO!

(And all that for less than $20K of student loans. State schools rock!)

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. I have never once met a more whiney group of individuals than pilots (with the possible exception of academics). And I have met more than a few that dislike their jobs. People put so much time, effort, and money into their aviation career only to discover that flying is a job and they actually have to work for a living, and that pilots aren't actually rockstars--it's quite a shock to them. I think the reason that so much bitterness prevails in the industry is because people go into it with unrealistic expectations.

Anyway, I disagree with most of what PilotYip says about college, but his signature contains some wisdom; fly because you love it. If you are in it for the money, you may be disappointed.

-Goose

 

[Goose Egg]

Vik,

If the truth will be told, I did spend some time as an accounting major, so I got a little bit more thourough of a business/economics background than I would have with just the aviation degree. (For all those out there wondering what to major in, business wouldn't be that bad of a minor with an aviation degree. It might take you a little bit longer, but it would be worth it in the long run.)

If I had the choice all over again, I doubt that I'd go to UND or ERAU though. My education at a state school was basically the same as theirs, but I spent 1/4 to 1/8 of what they did, and when all was said and done, I had just as many connections for the future.

-Goose

 

[avbug]

Do I support the notion that an individual, even a pilot, can succeed without a college degree?

Without hesitation, an unequivocal yes. I do.

Do I recommend it?

I do not.

I have only my own life to look at to quantify that. I don't believe a degree would have changed or helped my career one iota. In fact, the time taken to obtain it would have held me back. I began spraying right out of high school and haven't looked back except to be grateful for the chance to have done it. I can't imagine but that those years would have been wasted, in a classroom. I learned more in the time I did it than anything anybody could have taught me across a desk.

Instead, later, I turned to distance learning, which offers the symbology of being prostrate to the higher mind without the servitude. Truth is, I am uneducated, and have no education to speak of. I never went to school.

I don't counsel others to bypass an education or a degree, but I think it foolhardy to suggest that the degree is a critcal step in establishing a career. It's certainly an aid, but is it necessary? A resounding NO!

One does not become wise in the classroom, nor does one gain judgement. Nor does one learn but what can be reached in a book. The true education, training, learning, and garnering of wisdom and judgement can only come in the field from the school of hard knocks. There is no substitute. It sickens me to hear someone say, "but that's the way I was taught." Who cares? If that person were taught to run off a cliff with the other lemmings, does that not mean there is a better way?

Much rather, I would hear someone say, "but this is what I have learned by experience, and this is what I KNOW." Coming from college, you have what others know, not what you know. A big difference.

I don't for one moment assume to suggest that one should not attend school. I encourage it. However, today for one desiring to get started on a career in this business, I also have a counter suggestion. Get started, get flying, get making money, and then do the degree by distance learning. You can be gaining flight experience in the field and making money while you're completing your degree. You won't need the degree for the first few years of your career in any case...who cares if a flight instructor or freight pilot, or in fact, most regional FO positions, have a degree? Nobody. Get flying, get your degree at the same time, and use your flight training and experience toward that degree.

Makes a whole lot more sense to me.

If you want to have a backup career, by all means, do that. Get the specialized training. Anything from underwater basketweaving (a highly unappreciated profession) to aeronautical engineering. Whatever you like. Personally, one day I may pursue a law degree...where my life leads and what it brings I cannot say. Time will tell. But don't suppose for a moment that without a degree you lack worth, or marketability, or skill, or ability.

I don't get paid for a degree. I get paid for judgement. I also get paid for the ability to thread an airplane through the eye of a needle while the needle is on fire, and then go back and do it again. No degree would help me there, or mean a sliver of anything to those with the wisdom and understanding to know why...only to some pencil pusher/bean counter behind six walls of glass and a painting of a ship he's never seen...and I don't deal with those folks.

Get the degree. Be proud of it, you earned it. But don't be concerned for one moment about my lack of "education." I'm not. What I've learned has been self-taught, and hard-earned, too, and it's not something I've read about what someone else knows. It's what I know. One can't put a price on that.

 

[pilotyip]

Bobby I dd not mention NWA and UAL

Bobby I did not mention NWA and UAL because they have not been hiring recently, but when they were hiring I can give you list of ex-USA Jet pilots hired at those places without a degree. The degree as said above by Avbug does not make the man and does not mark him as successful. Avbug and I are on the same track, in getting a degree will help open soem doors, but if you want to fly for a living, start flying as soon as possible and do the degree on line, if you have the discipline.

 

[tanveer]

degree

Do i think a degree is important, absolutely yes. Do i think it'll make u a better person i don't care the reason cause the world wants you to have a degree and you are a part of this world so get a degree. Do i think it'll make you a better being, as an individual not necessarily but as a working being yes. regarding aviation or non aviation, i am debating on that as well, but, if becoming a pilot is what you want to do and nttn else then aviation degree is the best thing for you, but if you are not all that sure then go with a business degree will help everywhere.
and lastly MBA the three letters thatll help you greatly, do an aviation degree and then do your MBA you are set.

Later
tl

 

[Vik]

Get a degree already! College was a lot of fun. Great parties, women, alcohol.

Sheesh. Its some an important part of your life and it really builds character and molds you.

That piece of paper you get is not just academics, it shows a lot more.

Go to a college which isn't a 100% commuter campus, but go to one with a lot of dorms and students stay on campus. You'll have a blast!

 

[tanveer]

Vik

yo vik does you speak punjabi or just english ? oh and your aol email doesn't work man

later
tj

 

[bobbysamd]

Discipline

I did not mention NWA and UAL because they have not been hiring recently but when they were hiring I can give you list of ex-USA Jet pilots hired at those places without a degree . . .

Were any of these former employees hired at these carriers with high school only? I'd bet not. They likely had some college, which still gave them an advantage.

If you want to fly for a living, start flying as soon as possible and do the degree on line, if you have the discipline.

That's a big "if" for most people. What if they don't have the discipline, Yip? I submit that most people do not. That is bad advice for most people, and especially for young people.

Most people, after they start working, do not have the discipline, or time, to study online. At that point, college becomes a distraction for people who already have enough distractions and they never finish, to the detriment of their careers. It is extremely difficult to get back into school mode after being out of school mode, even briefly. I speak from first-hand experience.

Moreover, your position fails to address the argument that one needs credentials to get jobs which lead to jobs that will generate "TJ PIC." The best examples I can think of offhand are college flight programs that require a degree. Another case of being artificially disadvantaged because of no degree. You might argue there are other instructing jobs around, but many of these college programs pay okay, offer good benefits, and networking opportunities (that can lead to "TJ PIC").

You continue to dispense irresponsible advice, Yip, about getting college degrees.

Once again, get the degree, get it now, get it out of the way.