capnflyright
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Job outlook for rotary wing?
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How do you feel about starting over again? Your fixed time is absolutely worthless and meaningless to helicopter operators. In addition to that little problem, the market is going to be flooded by all the military pilots separating after these little middle east engagements. They all have tons of turbine, heavy helicopter time, that beginners will never be able to compete with. Dont let any of these flight schools sell you a load of crap, especially if its a flight school in Missouri (huge liars).
ghostrider64
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Vsf
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I *used* to make my living in rotary wing, but the job/financial aspects of the industry were so wretched that I cast my lot with fixed wing a few years ago. Helicopters are a lot of fun, and the rotary culture is a great culture (not a lot of back stabbers like we see in other realms of aviation)...but the sad fact is that the years insist on going by, and there you (well, a lot of us) sit, making less money than a mediocre waiter would make. Eventually that takes the fun out of it.
The good news, from what I've heard, is that salaries have gone up in the Gulf of Mexico (PHI, for example), but I have not bothered to confirm it. However, if I was contemplating a leap back into rotary, I would use PHI and similar Gulf companies as my benchmark for the industry's opportunities (or lack thereof).
The Vietnam war flooded the industry with pilots, which put civvies at a distinct disadvantage. As some other poster noted, the Iraq war is going to have the same effect.
I did see a Lear jet pilot sweet talk his boss into getting a Jet Ranger and sending him to helicopter training. Now THAT would be the way to go.
There are a lot of excellent helicopter pilots, in their 50's, scrapping for jobs that pay $3,000 a month (if that) in copters.
No thanks.
The good news, from what I've heard, is that salaries have gone up in the Gulf of Mexico (PHI, for example), but I have not bothered to confirm it. However, if I was contemplating a leap back into rotary, I would use PHI and similar Gulf companies as my benchmark for the industry's opportunities (or lack thereof).
The Vietnam war flooded the industry with pilots, which put civvies at a distinct disadvantage. As some other poster noted, the Iraq war is going to have the same effect.
I did see a Lear jet pilot sweet talk his boss into getting a Jet Ranger and sending him to helicopter training. Now THAT would be the way to go.
There are a lot of excellent helicopter pilots, in their 50's, scrapping for jobs that pay $3,000 a month (if that) in copters.
No thanks.
Last edited:
YGBSM
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dasmith said:
Yeah, not quite, unless 800 hours is "tons of turbine, heavy helicopter time."
Army guys make up the bulk of military helicopter pilots, and I know more than one who got out with 10 years' experience and under a thousand hours total time. Unless a guy is a senior warrant officer, it's not unusual these days to come out of the army and not be competitive in the civilian market. If a guy is a senior warrant officer, he'll stay in long enough to retire and then come into the market, or else go here (www.aptap.org) and then come after your fixed wing job.
Keep the Vietnam comparisons coming. They're funny.
YGBSM
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psysicx said:
Yes, but only on Sundays. (Not in California or New Jersey).
On regular T days, EMS guys are paid time and a half. The rest of the time, firefighter guys make slightly more than EMS guys (some exceptions), but not if they are on open time. (Ref: 14 CFR 49.25 a:2)
For more info, check www.helopilotpayqol.org.
Hope this helps.
From what I see happening in the industry right now, the job and pay prospects will get better. Especially for the pilots who have an instrument rating or an ATP (H). The percentage of helicoptrer pilots who have these qualifications are a much smaller percentage than pilots in the fixed-wing community. The helicopters that are now just coming out and will come into the industry over the next few years will make much of the difference. Helicopters like the AB139 and the Bell 429. Both these helicopters are IFR right out of the box. The 139 is in the process of getting approved for anti-icing/de-icing. Plus the size of these helicopters will force the companies to require such qualifications. Either by regulation or by the insurance companies.
semperfido
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FlyWithSean
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SloDoDriver
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SloDoDriver
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Howdy Fox 6!
you would'nt happen to be one of those dirty, nasty, knuckle draggin', green clad, dirt bag, harley ridin' employees of the happy viking would you? If so, I'm just east of you, next door to AMOEFOEIEIOOOOOOOO...
Quit trollin' the boards, don't you know it's only gonna get better for us?
If you are not the aforementioned, and highly dignified individual..., oops! my bad,
but "Howdy!" anyway.
you would'nt happen to be one of those dirty, nasty, knuckle draggin', green clad, dirt bag, harley ridin' employees of the happy viking would you? If so, I'm just east of you, next door to AMOEFOEIEIOOOOOOOO...
Quit trollin' the boards, don't you know it's only gonna get better for us?
If you are not the aforementioned, and highly dignified individual..., oops! my bad,
but "Howdy!" anyway.
P3-Adub
Bye Bye !!!
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Helo questions
New to the helo side of the industry, our company is considering setting up a helo op down in the carribean. No idea what kind of pilot experience/requirements we should be looking for, I do know that we will be shopping for a good machine, twin turbine, IFR, ete... for pax transportation. Posted a thread on this today. Any chance someone could enlighten me on pay ranges for out of country contracts for pilots and mechanics ? Will be a first class operation with excellent support. I have seen the S76 and the Agusta at NBAA, rode around quite a bit in the TwinStar. We are thinking up to 6 pax and some baggage capability. Wheels or skids ? Over water concerns ?
Thanks in advance for your replys.
New to the helo side of the industry, our company is considering setting up a helo op down in the carribean. No idea what kind of pilot experience/requirements we should be looking for, I do know that we will be shopping for a good machine, twin turbine, IFR, ete... for pax transportation. Posted a thread on this today. Any chance someone could enlighten me on pay ranges for out of country contracts for pilots and mechanics ? Will be a first class operation with excellent support. I have seen the S76 and the Agusta at NBAA, rode around quite a bit in the TwinStar. We are thinking up to 6 pax and some baggage capability. Wheels or skids ? Over water concerns ?
Thanks in advance for your replys.
onthebeach
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Suitable Helicopter
If you are operating in the Carib, IMO you don't NEED true IFR capability, i.e., certification for IFR ops, since if the weather is bad enought to fly IFR in the Carib it will be the kind of weather you wouldn't want to be flying in in the first place. However, I recommend buying an IFR-certified ship to allow filing IFR in the many instances that pseudo-instrument conditions will exist down there, i.e., hazy days overwater, and basically ALL night-time operations around hilly island terrain with few surface light. You definitely want a single pilot operation for weight considerations and therefore you will also want an autopilot-equipped helo. If you buy the helo equipped as described, you will also have a much better situation at resale time.
The place you don't want to scrimp on is the pilot, especially if you're going to be operating at night. Make sure the individual you hire is comfortable flying over water AND is instrument proficient. Now here is where you are going to have trouble, because the people who REALLY are instrument proficient usually don't want to fly a VFR operation, and if you manage to hire someone who actually can fly the gauges he/she will lose proficiency rapidly without 2 x year recurrent (my recommendation) IFR recurrent training. Everybody with an instrument ticket...and there are many...will tell you a tale, but take my advise, put your prospective new hire in a non-autopilot Bell 206 with only basic gyro instruments & one nav/com, cover up the chin window, put foggles on him/her, then get in cruise flight, throw an approach plate in his/her lap and say, "you have the controls, you just punched in, the weather is 600 & 1, land us at a suitable airport." This test will separate the horses from the crowbait...
You do not want a wheeled helicopter UNLESS you will regularly be operating around fixed-wing parking. The line people in the Carib tend to be *laissez-faire* about parking and unless you have a golf-cart/limo set up to hustle your pax to the terminal from an outlying ramp area you are going to sandblast jets with a skid job...not good. Wheels add weight, complexity and add to the cost of maintenance in the operation you'll be setting up. Of course, it should go without saying, you MUST have popout floats installed.
You definitely want a twin for over-water operation. You will have trouble getting one that will haul the load you're talking about and maintain any sort of Category A capability in that heat and humidity. The good news is, you really don't need Cat A since an obstacle-free flat place is not hard to find in the islands, but the capabilty to continue to an airport in the event of engine failure during 95% of your flight profile, i.e., cruise, will be invaluable in terms of safety and insurability down there.
Buy the newest helicopter you can. You may not think you can afford new, but trust me you will not be able to afford to maintain a run-out ship. Pay now or pay later. Hire a good mechanic.
If there is ANY way to get around it, DO NOT buy a helicopter in the first place. If you absolutely must have vertical takeoff and landing capability, the helicopter is the only way to go, however I have seen a lot of helicopter buys that were based pretty much on ego. In the Carib it's probably better to buy a simple STOL twin airplane (i.e., Islander) and limo the pax to/from. However if you are going to/from yachts and/or the small "primitive" islands where runways don't exist, then you are going to be forced into the helicopter. In that case, lots of luck.
If you want to do it and do it right, you can hire me for the job. My asking salary for an operation like this is between $100,000 and $70,000 per year, depending on the benefit package, plus a full-service training arrangement with FSI (the last item is non-negotiable).
However, I suspect that your boss is pretty comfortable with you and will probably transition you to fly the op...that is, if insurance can be had...probably not. In case you do end up flying the thing, take my advice, hire a part-timer with a real helo background to babysit you for a while. Make sure you are proficient in IFR recoveries and avoiding settling with power. Make sure your part-timer can teach you the "EMS approach and departure" technique for getting into/out of an unfamiliar LZ, or better yet, don't fly into unfamiliar LZs. When you cut loose and go on your own, remember a high time fixed wing guy is still a low-time RW guy. Do not get overconfident, these machines are really pretty fragile and can get you into trouble faster than a M0.92 CE-750. There is no such thing as a minor helicopter accident.
If you are operating in the Carib, IMO you don't NEED true IFR capability, i.e., certification for IFR ops, since if the weather is bad enought to fly IFR in the Carib it will be the kind of weather you wouldn't want to be flying in in the first place. However, I recommend buying an IFR-certified ship to allow filing IFR in the many instances that pseudo-instrument conditions will exist down there, i.e., hazy days overwater, and basically ALL night-time operations around hilly island terrain with few surface light. You definitely want a single pilot operation for weight considerations and therefore you will also want an autopilot-equipped helo. If you buy the helo equipped as described, you will also have a much better situation at resale time.
The place you don't want to scrimp on is the pilot, especially if you're going to be operating at night. Make sure the individual you hire is comfortable flying over water AND is instrument proficient. Now here is where you are going to have trouble, because the people who REALLY are instrument proficient usually don't want to fly a VFR operation, and if you manage to hire someone who actually can fly the gauges he/she will lose proficiency rapidly without 2 x year recurrent (my recommendation) IFR recurrent training. Everybody with an instrument ticket...and there are many...will tell you a tale, but take my advise, put your prospective new hire in a non-autopilot Bell 206 with only basic gyro instruments & one nav/com, cover up the chin window, put foggles on him/her, then get in cruise flight, throw an approach plate in his/her lap and say, "you have the controls, you just punched in, the weather is 600 & 1, land us at a suitable airport." This test will separate the horses from the crowbait...
You do not want a wheeled helicopter UNLESS you will regularly be operating around fixed-wing parking. The line people in the Carib tend to be *laissez-faire* about parking and unless you have a golf-cart/limo set up to hustle your pax to the terminal from an outlying ramp area you are going to sandblast jets with a skid job...not good. Wheels add weight, complexity and add to the cost of maintenance in the operation you'll be setting up. Of course, it should go without saying, you MUST have popout floats installed.
You definitely want a twin for over-water operation. You will have trouble getting one that will haul the load you're talking about and maintain any sort of Category A capability in that heat and humidity. The good news is, you really don't need Cat A since an obstacle-free flat place is not hard to find in the islands, but the capabilty to continue to an airport in the event of engine failure during 95% of your flight profile, i.e., cruise, will be invaluable in terms of safety and insurability down there.
Buy the newest helicopter you can. You may not think you can afford new, but trust me you will not be able to afford to maintain a run-out ship. Pay now or pay later. Hire a good mechanic.
If there is ANY way to get around it, DO NOT buy a helicopter in the first place. If you absolutely must have vertical takeoff and landing capability, the helicopter is the only way to go, however I have seen a lot of helicopter buys that were based pretty much on ego. In the Carib it's probably better to buy a simple STOL twin airplane (i.e., Islander) and limo the pax to/from. However if you are going to/from yachts and/or the small "primitive" islands where runways don't exist, then you are going to be forced into the helicopter. In that case, lots of luck.
If you want to do it and do it right, you can hire me for the job. My asking salary for an operation like this is between $100,000 and $70,000 per year, depending on the benefit package, plus a full-service training arrangement with FSI (the last item is non-negotiable).
However, I suspect that your boss is pretty comfortable with you and will probably transition you to fly the op...that is, if insurance can be had...probably not. In case you do end up flying the thing, take my advice, hire a part-timer with a real helo background to babysit you for a while. Make sure you are proficient in IFR recoveries and avoiding settling with power. Make sure your part-timer can teach you the "EMS approach and departure" technique for getting into/out of an unfamiliar LZ, or better yet, don't fly into unfamiliar LZs. When you cut loose and go on your own, remember a high time fixed wing guy is still a low-time RW guy. Do not get overconfident, these machines are really pretty fragile and can get you into trouble faster than a M0.92 CE-750. There is no such thing as a minor helicopter accident.
ghostrider64
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