Jetblue's Neelman:define hypocracy

[Lake Alice]

All that being said it seems they have taken their vitamins, had a V8 and now things are going in the right direction.

 

[mannyaplus11]

So, do us all a favor, quit your job and make sure you get another 10,000 or so of your buddies to do the same thing.

So, you want me to quit my job, just so you can sleep better at night. Tell you what, when you grow some BALLS, come over to my house, face my wife and kids and tell them that I should quit, go on unemployment, make payment to my house late and lose my medical benefits, just so you can get a small pay raise. Meanwhile your management is rewarding themselves with bonuses and stock options that total in the millions.

WE AREN'T THE PROBLEM!!!! Management is the problem.

GET A CLUE!!!

 

[Lake Alice]

Not to hijack the thread but you may have hit the nail on the head. AA management gets a 23% raise while pilots are still on furlough and the current pilots are under pay cuts.

At B6 I don't think any of us are happy with our pay. I do say there would be a mutiny if D&D took some sort of pay raise. Granted they have their stock options but straight salary is still very low by CEO comparisons.

 

[32LT10]

32,

As it was explained to me DL needed to charge $200, for example, per pax to fly from NY to FL. They charged $100. DL operating in bankruptcy seemed to charge fares well below what they needed to in order to sustain themselves and make a profit. It seems that DL has been acting for quite some time without any regard for common sense. This is not a defense of our operation or an attack on theirs, just an opinion.

LA,

I think the airlines have been doing this for longer than the current run of BK operations. The reason I have been told is that if you can create an edge in a market like NY to FL with lower fares you can offset that loss somewhere else in the network. It has been the way the legacy carriers have squezzed competition for quite sometime.

In the same way that B6 is charging $29 for some fares to stimulate that particular market. They may in turn be charging more for another segment that can get the premium dollars. Unfortunately without re-regulating the industry this what you are going to see. Someone with the deepest pockets will win. Just hope they don't do what my company did with their deep pockets and spend it all on frivilous expenditures like Avolar and the US merger.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

SWA aside, if you compare other LCC compensation to that of the top legacy carriers before all the pay cuts, they were working for 1/2 the pay and benefits. Remember, there is more to compensation than just pay rates. Even SWA was well below. Again, I never said this was the cause for the cuts at the legacy carriers. It was however a contributing factor.

Sorry, dude. You are still way off. If you have been around alot, quote some facts.

 

[Lake Alice]

Funny you mention Avolar. I applied there a while back.

 

[32LT10]

Funny you mention Avolar. I applied there a while back.

I think Avolar had some potential had it not been under the term of Goodwin and Dutta. Those guys were the prototypes for Kerry Skeen and Ron Allen. If you look at what the DL bizjet operation in CVG has done it appears to be working for them. I think if UAL had been able to capture some synergy and put out a good product it would have worked.

The timing was a mess on the Avolar deal also. UAL was trying to merge with US, renew contracts with the Pilots and the IAM from the ESOP period and continue to run the airline. It was too many directions at once and the wheels fell off quickly. I can not find my notes on the cost associated with just the US and Avolar deals but it was in the billions of dollars spent and nothing to show for it.

 

[800Dog]

Sorry, dude. You are still way off. If you have been around alot, quote some facts.

I have been around quite awhile. All you need to do is look at payrates, work rules and retirement at the legacy carriers a few years ago and compare them with the LCC carriers they were competing against at the time. Get your head out of the sand.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

I have been around quite awhile. All you need to do is look at payrates, work rules and retirement at the legacy carriers a few years ago and compare them with the LCC carriers they were competing against at the time. Get your head out of the sand.

No sand around here. You are the one making the claim. All I ask is that you show the facts. Say, cite the years that SWA pay rates were half of those at AA, or the top 5 legacies. Make your statement based upon fact, not emotion,

 

[Tejas-Jet]

If I can't get the neighborhood kid to mow my lawn for $20 then I have to find the $ amount that will attract someone to mow my lawn. However, if there are way too many kids willing to mow my lawn for $25, I will eventually find one who will do it for $20 (or maybe less).

You actually got kids in your neighborhood that will mow lawns ?!?!?!? The only kid in my neighborhood that ever mowed my lawn was ....mine. Now he has gone to college....and still no other kids in this neighborhood mow lawns.

Now Miguel and his family do my lawn....for $25 (cash)...and they are done in less than 30 minutes....very professional job too.

Tejas

 

[JP4user]

Now Miguel and his family do my lawn....for $25 (cash)...and they are done in less than 30 minutes....very professional job too.

Tejas

Burritos and lawn care. What would we do without the illegals around?

 

[GuppyPuppy]

32,

As it was explained to me DL needed to charge $200, for example, per pax to fly from NY to FL. They charged $100. DL operating in bankruptcy seemed to charge fares well below what they needed to in order to sustain themselves and make a profit. It seems that DL has been acting for quite some time without any regard for common sense. This is not a defense of our operation or an attack on theirs, just an opinion.

Here's an opinion...

What will JB do when, say in 10-20 years, Virgin America (or some other relatively new startup) decides to fly JFK-FLL and charge $50? If VA's costs are less than JB's and JB matches VA's fare to keep their market share, would you accuse JB of acting without any regard for common sense?

This is not a defense of VA's operation or an attack on JB's, just an opinion.

GP

 

[Hutcha]

Did it ever occur to you that they had to accept significant paycuts in order to compete with the LCC pilots? Did it ever occur to you that the LCC pilots tossed their principles by accepting a job for 1/2 of what others do the job for? I hope you have few mirrors in your home!

Did it ever occur to you that the LCC pilot had to accept the lower pay to provide for his family and keep his house after being kicked from his "Legacy" carrier? You can't say the the LCC pilots tossed their principles in accepting a job without also saying the legacy pilots tossed theirs in accepting Huge cuts to keep a job. The legacy pilot had an option; Take the cut or don't (and let the airline go under and find employment elsewhere). Everyone makes decisions based on what is best for him or herself not what is best for the industry.

 

[FlyAuburn]

Did it ever occur to you that the LCC pilot had to accept the lower pay to provide for his family and keep his house after being kicked from his "Legacy" carrier? You can't say the the LCC pilots tossed their principles in accepting a job without also saying the legacy pilots tossed theirs in accepting Huge cuts to keep a job. The legacy pilot had an option; Take the cut or don't (and let the airline go under and find employment elsewhere). Everyone makes decisions based on what is best for him or herself not what is best for the industry.

oh,oh. ding,ding, ding, we have a winner. :beer:

 

[flying bubba]

Hutch, that was awesome!

 

[LearLove]

I don't know, I think the idea of paying dues to ALPA for 30 years, only to have them drop you like a bad habit when you retire as the management of your old company guts your retirement is a little silly, too.

"I don't know" - yes that is correct, you don't know. At 3000tt and less then one year in the industry, you were not even working with us prior to 9/11, so STFU.

 

[800Dog]

Did it ever occur to you that the LCC pilot had to accept the lower pay to provide for his family and keep his house after being kicked from his "Legacy" carrier? You can't say the the LCC pilots tossed their principles in accepting a job without also saying the legacy pilots tossed theirs in accepting Huge cuts to keep a job. The legacy pilot had an option; Take the cut or don't (and let the airline go under and find employment elsewhere). Everyone makes decisions based on what is best for him or herself not what is best for the industry.

And so the slide continues.