JetBlue- To go or not?

[FurloughedAgain]

Any solution to 10 forthcoming? Are they not protected by the Allegheny/Mohawk labor protective provisions at the very least?

 

[BeachBummer]

While there is (kinda) successor ship language in the PEA. AM only applies when there is a single carrier status. So, hence forth and ever more, we the pilots of jet blue would have to hope for the fact that our managment would apply for the status for us. Or rather than apply... negotiate that into the merger or aquasition...

I'm sure that would be in thier best interest, making them more money in the long run right? You decide.

Of course it's debatable wether or not the PEA will/would/can/could hold up in court as it hasn't been proven yet. I mean the company itself wants to argue against it. Why wouldn't another pilot group fighting for thier seniority rights?

To that affect, atleast 1100 guys think that should JB be involved in any kind of transaction, managment will take care of us and we will come out on top. And\or AM must apply and we will be integrated. Union or not ask the AT guys what SWA wants to do with them? There must be contractual successorship language attached to each pilot at the end of the day to make any of this worth it.

Soooo, short answer to is #10 being addressed... not really

Sorry, i forgot about the 5 documents... they should address this. What are the odds your hand stays clean when you wipe your butt with swiss cheese?

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

. Expect aircraft sales to outpace deliveries for the next five years or so.

So you think we're going to shrink for the next 5 years?

 

[StarChecker]

That's more than twice what I pay in premiums now. Guess I should stop complaining.

1193 of us think it's just fine. Not gonna change any time soon thanks to them.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

The medical is very expensive but pretty good coverage. For the most coverage for a family it costs around $283/per paycheck.

Crash: the October Pairings are loaded in PBS and has us changing hotels in BUF to the Indigo.

Further clarification-- that health plan is the Cadillac Escalade plan that only 10% of the pilots utilize. Jetblue has four health plans to choose from and most pilots fall in CrewCare1 which is currently only $141/paycheck for my family of four.

 

[flyn96]

Further clarification-- that health plan is the Cadillac Escalade plan that only 10% of the pilots utilize. Jetblue has four health plans to choose from and most pilots fall in CrewCare1 which is currently only $141/paycheck for my family of four.

What networks do you guys have, United Healthcare, CIGNA, Blue????

Thanks

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Here is my composite answer to this thread:

1) If you are at a turboprop regional, JB is better.
2) If you are a FO at a jet regional, JB is better.
3) If you are a CA at a jet regional, it depends on your situation, i.e, seniority, longevitiy, base, size of your family, etc.
4) If you are aiming for a major, going to Kallitta, World, North American, etc will be better on your resume than right seat time in one of our small narrowbodies.
5) If your goal is to live/work on the east coast, JB may be for you. We have four bases on the east coast: JFK, BOS, MCO and FLL. Getting BOS or JFK in either plane is a no-brainer; MCO/FLL might take a little longer but is eventually doable for everyone. As far as flying, most of the 320 and all of the 190 flying are east coast.
6) If your goal is to live/work on the west coast, find another company. We have a tiny base in LGB and do very little west coast flying. That won't change for the foreseeable future.
7) If you have a large family, and JB would be your only health insurance, you might want to look elsewhere. Premiums are the highest in the industry, with some of the lowest benefits. Premiums increase every year, and will continue to do so. If you have alternative insurance (wife, military, etc) then JB might work for you.
8) If you come to JB, expect a decade or so in the right seat. More, if you want to have a decent schedule when you upgrade. Aircraft orders/options have decreased every year since 2006, including our latest "order", which actually reduced firm orders and options, and pushed deliveries even further into the future. Coupled with our very young pilot group, and things are pretty stable here. Expect aircraft sales to outpace deliveries for the next five years or so.
9) You can do pretty well in the right seat here, especially if you live in base and are extremely flexible. I am flying with a 5 year FO that is using his seniority to double-dip every chance he gets, and will make over $120k this year. He is in the top 2%, and is playing the game well, but the opportunity is there.
10) The one intangible is job security. At JB, you won't have any. We have no scope, no merger/successor protections, etc. If you are fairly young, that's probably a good gamble. Even if the worst happens, and we are bought and then on the street, you'll have options. If you're older, you might want to think twice. Unemployed at 55 is not a pretty picture.
11) The 320 has a pretty gentlemanly schedule, except for the day sleeps/redeyes. The 190 is regional flying. Expect 4+ legs/day, with multiple aircraft swaps/bag drags.

Pretty much sums it up, nearly all speculative... 1, 2, 3 agreed. 4-- You do the hiring? Just because it looks good on your resume, doesn't mean you'll get hired at a legacy... 5-- No way, not going to get to MCO ever as Capt... 6-- How do you know it won't change outside of LGB, we could ramp up SFO, LAS, or SEA... 7-- talk to your neighbors and see what they pay for health insurance. We have 4 health plans to choose from and they vary in price (yes the premium plan that only has 10% pilot participation is expensive, but the others are affordable)-- in fact, according to the upcoming health care reform, all four plans are considered "cadillac plans" which means Jetblue will be taxed $8 million in 2015 and something like $25 million in 2018 if all the coverage remains the same-- welcome to Obamacare. 8-- a decade or so in the right seat? Come on!!! FOs are upgrading now at the 5-6 year point in their career here, granted they'll be sitting reserve, but 10+ years for upgrade seems a little long... Aircraft sales will outpace deliveries? Really, where is that information coming from? We have aircraft on order and they are coming! 40 A320 NEO, 30/52 A320 converted to A321 and something like 30 or so more E190s and winglets coming to all... That's over 120 aircraft on order... 9-- yes, if you're a lineholder, you can do very well financially if you're willing to work... 10 Job security? At least JB hasn't laid off any pilots in its 10+ years history. This is the airline industry you're talking about, unless you're at SWA, there is no such animal as job security, with or without a union contract... 11-- OK...

 

[RiddleEagle18]

What networks do you guys have, United Healthcare, CIGNA, Blue????

Thanks

You can chose United or Blue Cross we have both. The plans are identical.

 

[BeachBummer]

10 Job security? At least JB hasn't laid off any pilots in its 10+ years history.

Which airline in it's first 10-11 yrs did lay off? I understand your not worried about it being a Senior bus guy and all, but it holds alittle more weight with the junior folk. The pvc needs to adress this #10 question in a serious manner.

 

[Turbosnake03]

Which airline in it's first 10-11 yrs did lay off?

Hey beach i love all of your input.. i think you have alot of great ideas ... but i do think there has been a few that not only have laid off but went under.......

Independence Air,
MaxJet,
EOS,
Silverjet,
Skybus,
Vanguard,

im sure there are more im not thinking of.......

 

[Whataboutbob]

So you think we're going to shrink for the next 5 years?

The webcast from the " Deutsche Bank Aviation Conference" on 9-13-2011 JetBlue said that they are taking 12 aircraft deliveries next year. (The webcast a week earlier said they were trying to get out of 3 of those 12, so I guess all 12 now).

Jetblue guy said that with those orders capacity would be up 5% next year.

The webcast from a week earlier Jetblue guy said that the 17 possible lease returns where in what he made it sound to be the 2013'-2015' time period. (On 9-13-2011 webcast jetblue said the 17 aircraft that leases come due are from 2013-2018).

I would say not shrinking, forsure growing the next few years. I know its a young pilot group on average but I would also guess some people would jump to a legacy if they/when they start hiring. I really don't think Jetblue will be in a furlough situation anytime soon (never say never).

 

[TommyG]

Prediction: JetBlue will purchase American in the next two years.

 

[mepilot1234]

My advice, if you are able to get on with Jetblue, do so. In the meantime pursue whatever your dream airline is, if you are able to get that job, great, if not, Jetblue is a really good place to work. You may be surprised to find out that you are happy at Jetblue. I've been at Jetblue for about 6 years, I come in, fly my trip, and go home. Make good money. Retirement is below par, as is the medical. But all in all, it is a great place to work.

 

[BAe3100FO]

Here is my composite answer to this thread:
If you are a CA at a jet regional, it depends on your situation, i.e, seniority, longevitiy, base, size of your family, etc.
.

And for me, the choice came down to overall QOL.

Right now I'm away from home 2-3 nights a week. Which allows me to spend more time with family/friends. I also get to coach a few youth sports teams, play/coach on a few adult sports teams, help out in community/church/volunteer activities.

I don't make $100/hr, but I don't need to in order to feel like my families needs are met. (although, this company will pay me that eventually)
I know my lifestyle and QOL won't stay the same in a few years, but spending time with young'ns while you can is more than worth it.

Which for me(and just Me) I consider that to me more important than say, "24 hour layovers in St. Lucia"

Like I and many others have said...hindsight in 20/20 and I'll let you know how my QOL is in 35 years.

 

[N813CA]

please if you have doubts coming here. Don't there are 1,000s of others that would give anythng to work here.

 

[n757st]

And for me, the choice came down to overall QOL.

Right now I'm away from home 2-3 nights a week. Which allows me to spend more time with family/friends. I also get to coach a few youth sports teams, play/coach on a few adult sports teams, help out in community/church/volunteer activities.

I don't make $100/hr, but I don't need to in order to feel like my families needs are met. (although, this company will pay me that eventually)
I know my lifestyle and QOL won't stay the same in a few years, but spending time with young'ns while you can is more than worth it.

Which for me(and just Me) I consider that to me more important than say, "24 hour layovers in St. Lucia"

Like I and many others have said...hindsight in 20/20 and I'll let you know how my QOL is in 35 years.

No worries man. To each there own. Your situation might be unique and family does come first. I think the vitriol in my argument came out because I can recall how poorly I was treated at AWAC, and brotha it pains me to think about it. I wish well for all the AWAC guys out there, they are a great group of pilots that once worked for a regional that had quality of life rivaling some majors. Those days though are indeed over. I remember pilots in there 40s like check airmen CS claiming that they were lifers at AWAC, and I shook my head then and I REALLY shake my head now, because I saw an airline on life support then and I see one in the trama intensive care unit now. Make no mistake, I would be shocked if airways renewed that contract. AWAC made some poor plays in the early '00s. They thought the 70 seater was a dead plane, and that their starategy of skipping that generation in favor or the 90 seater was the correct play. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but we can all see how many larger RJs that AWAC is operating. There is no ill will on my side toward any, I repeat any AWAC pilot. I was mearly trying to point out that as someone whose done both, there is no quality of life comparison between the two carriers. Your unique situation might lend itself to staying at AWAC, but I am guessing that if you had come here, comuting and all, you would enjoy more time off then you have now with greater paychecks and more enjoyable stay overs. But that is all speculative. I hope things continue to be good at AWAC. I hope you get to see your kids as much as possible, and I hope for every AWAC lifers sake that in 2015 business is better with another industry leading CBA that addresses some of the QOL issues that persist.

 

[Lake Alice]

The webcast from the " Deutsche Bank Aviation Conference" on 9-13-2011 JetBlue said that they are taking 12 aircraft deliveries next year. (The webcast a week earlier said they were trying to get out of 3 of those 12, so I guess all 12 now).

Jetblue guy said that with those orders capacity would be up 5% next year.

The webcast from a week earlier Jetblue guy said that the 17 possible lease returns where in what he made it sound to be the 2013'-2015' time period. (On 9-13-2011 webcast jetblue said the 17 aircraft that leases come due are from 2013-2018).

I would say not shrinking, forsure growing the next few years. I know its a young pilot group on average but I would also guess some people would jump to a legacy if they/when they start hiring. I really don't think Jetblue will be in a furlough situation anytime soon (never say never).

It is always very difficult to estimate growth at Jetblue because of lease returns. The company routinely touts large aircraft orders but after a little digging this last order indicates a net number substantially smaller than the order. It's keeps the fleet young but does little for growth. Speaking of growth the majority of our growth is frequency and not new destinations. Don't get me wrong, growth is growth but ours is different. As for the last round or upgrades it's arguable the majority of them were in response to operating extremely understaffed. It appears we are getting caught up so upgrades have slowed. Expect attrition to increase primarily with junior pilots if legacy carriers begin hiring. There are many factors affecting this but the main seem to be sub-standard retirement and health benefits which are better at other carriers and one other maybe the ability to upgrade and international flying. With such a young pilot group upgrades are solely tied to expansion and our international flying is being outsourced. All in all a good place to work but unlikely a career destination.

 

[Philo_Bedeaux]

American purchased TWA.... That worked out well!

 

[no1pilot2000]

In this tough economy, get the job and keep it till something better comes your way.

 

[SkiDawg]

No worries man. To each there own. Your situation might be unique and family does come first. I think the vitriol in my argument came out because I can recall how poorly I was treated at AWAC, and brotha it pains me to think about it. I wish well for all the AWAC guys out there, they are a great group of pilots that once worked for a regional that had quality of life rivaling some majors. Those days though are indeed over. I remember pilots in there 40s like check airmen CS claiming that they were lifers at AWAC, and I shook my head then and I REALLY shake my head now, because I saw an airline on life support then and I see one in the trama intensive care unit now. Make no mistake, I would be shocked if airways renewed that contract. AWAC made some poor plays in the early '00s. They thought the 70 seater was a dead plane, and that their starategy of skipping that generation in favor or the 90 seater was the correct play. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but we can all see how many larger RJs that AWAC is operating. There is no ill will on my side toward any, I repeat any AWAC pilot. I was mearly trying to point out that as someone whose done both, there is no quality of life comparison between the two carriers. Your unique situation might lend itself to staying at AWAC, but I am guessing that if you had come here, comuting and all, you would enjoy more time off then you have now with greater paychecks and more enjoyable stay overs. But that is all speculative. I hope things continue to be good at AWAC. I hope you get to see your kids as much as possible, and I hope for every AWAC lifers sake that in 2015 business is better with another industry leading CBA that addresses some of the QOL issues that persist.

A little late to the party but better late than never..........SM (yes, I know [Scary Movie!]), are you sure about all this or is there any "Blue Juice" involved? I am asking seriously because I am also an "AWACer" contemplating the move to JB (currently in Phase II), and I notice that you are very vocal on the matter, both here and on the Air Willy B Board...... Thanks