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Jetblue speculated to add STL & CMH

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lowecur

lowecur

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2003
Posts
2,317
The buzz is these two cities will be announced shortly. STL is rumored to be the midwest hub. I was hoping they would open Gary/Chicago as the hub, but my guess is Jetblue may just seek a few gates each at some of the Chicago area airports(similar to the LA area).

STL is probably the only viable airport that could support 100 flts per day in the next 12-18 months. Jetblue will get a tough fight from both AA and SWA, as they can't help but step on a few toes if they plan to run at least 100 flts per day.

Stay tuned.

:pimp:
 
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Considering that AA is one of the most aggressive competiters that there is and Jetblue has stated before that they do not want to contend with AA on a scale like that, and that AA owns about 70% of the traffic going in and out of STL (SWA owns the other 30%, they own the WHOLE EAST TERMINAL!) I'd say that this is a reach. Besides, if im not mistaken STL has some of the highest landing fees in the country.

Robert Land, JetBlue’s senior vice president of government affairs, says American’s presence at DFW –-where it has a major hub and controls 80% of the traffic -– is not something JetBlue wants to contend with

But what do I know. Im just a pilot.
 
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AA is an aggressive competitor??? AA the one who is shrinking to profitability?? What are they going to do, put a whole bunch of 37 and 50 seat RJs up against the E190? Maybe they'll put their best foot forward and put Trans States on all the routes......... I think JetBlue needs to only fear SWA in STL.:D
 
Frequency said:
Besides, if im not mistaken STL has some of the highest landing fees in the country. But what do I know. Im just a pilot.True.:)
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With the new runway, expenses are supposed to go through the roof. Keep in mind if JB plans to run 100 flts per day through there, this will help subsidize much of the cost for all airlines. I also have to believe that Jetblue has worked out a deal with STL where they will get subsidization for quite a few years. STL is desparate for more revenue, and Jetblue needs a midwest hub in the worst way. Could be a nice marriage.

:pimp:
 
Jetblue would be great for the city of St. Louis and would be excellent for commuters.

That being said, they'd be in for the dogfight of their lives with Southwest and American. As much as AA has shrunk, I could see Arpey growing it to nearly the size it was pre-2003 reduction if not bigger in order to fight Jetblue. Plus, wouldn't it be some of the first direct market-to-market competition Jetblue vs. Southwest?
 
SWA doesn't fly to JFK, BOS or LGB from STL. I would guess a lot of our flights would be to those cities.
 
Have you been to STL lately? It is a ghost town, and AA's presence is only there in the form of RJs and a few turbo-props. With the nice big new runway they have I am sure the city would be willing to bend over backwards to get a carrier like jetBlue in there.
 
T-Gates said:
GYY is a sh*thole!!

The only airlines that could pull off flying out of Gary are the charter supplementals. They have few gates, and only one large runway. Not to mention the surrounding area is terrible. The only reason people are willing to drive there is because they're paying $100 roundtrip to Florida or Myrtle Beach. Nothing like embellishing your point. You have learned well there grasshopper.;)

I would love to see STL become a *real* hub again, it's a ghost town! And mabye it would give those controllers something to do again, they're still very convinced they're working the TWA push sometimes.
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It's the only viable option for an immediate midwest hub. It will serve as a nice link to the jetblue cities in the NW, West, and SW. Cities like ROC, SYR, Burlington, RIC, JAX, FLL, MCO, and dozens of future stations will find the non congested transfer a pleasure compared to other major hubs.

:pimp:
 
MD80DRVR said:
SWA doesn't fly to JFK, BOS or LGB from STL. I would guess a lot of our flights would be to those cities.
Click to expand...


To start, yes. But I believe the midwest base (STL or MCI?) is gonna be a new 190 hub. The 190 is going west, and I am willing to bet a pair of Western Airlines kiddie wings I found in my haus last week, that it's going west from Missouri.
 
lowecur said:
The buzz is these two cities will be announced shortly. STL is rumored to be the midwest hub. I was hoping they would open Gary/Chicago as the hub, but my guess is Jetblue may just seek a few gates each at some of the Chicago area airports(similar to the LA area).

STL is probably the only viable airport that could support 100 flts per day in the next 12-18 months. Jetblue will get a tough fight from both AA and SWA, as they can't help but step on a few toes if they plan to run at least 100 flts per day.

Stay tuned.

:pimp:
Click to expand...

Funny you say cmh -- I first heard that rumor this week.
 
lowecur said:
The buzz is these two cities will be announced shortly. STL is rumored to be the midwest hub.
:pimp:
Click to expand...

STL would be a wonderful place for a MW hub but... some brief history is in need here.

STL City, which controls the revenue generated in the city proper and the airport has it's collective head up it's ass.

STL has bickered for at least 20 years on the expansion project. It's done now and they have 3 parallel runways to use for takeoffs and landings... but not simultaneously. The new control tower is in the IFR clearway for missed approaches off of an ILS from the north and in the approach path of arrivals from the south. Idiots.

So what they have is a huge, EXPENSIVE, inefficient airport plan... and they want the airlines to pay for it because the rest of STL which is STL County (90% of the population in STL) has absolved themselves of the issue.

Real team players.

STL city now has a HUGE bill to pay. The fee schedule they propose make STL the 2nd highest in the nation to operate out of.

STL went to AA and said, "Here are your landing fees." AA said, "In that case, here is our schedule... with only 20 mainline flights."

STL arrogantly went to SWA and said, "Here's your chance to kill SWA in STL... here's your landing fee prices." SWA said, "Thanks, but no thanks. We've got several areas that we can throw growth right now. In light of these prices, we'll reduce our capacity at STL by 8%. Have a LUVly day."

STL, not finished yet went to Dave Needdleman. STL said, "Yada, yada. Here's your prices." JBLU countered with a flight schedule of over 140 flights per day in and out of STL... but the last document shown was the pricing schedule that would enable it to happen (nowhere near what STL was wanting).

STL refused.

Dave said, "Then the only JBLU aircraft you will see in STL will be a divert."

History lesson over.

Maybe JBLU and STL have worked through some of the issues?
 
FLYLOW22 said:
STL would be a wonderful place for a MW hub but... some brief history is in need here.

STL City, which controls the revenue generated in the city proper and the airport has it's collective head up it's ass.

STL has bickered for at least 20 years on the expansion project. It's done now and they have 3 parallel runways to use for takeoffs and landings... but not simultaneously. The new control tower is in the IFR clearway for missed approaches off of an ILS from the north and in the approach path of arrivals from the south. Idiots.

So what they have is a huge, EXPENSIVE, inefficient airport plan... and they want the airlines to pay for it because the rest of STL which is STL County (90% of the population in STL) has absolved themselves of the issue.

Real team players.

STL city now has a HUGE bill to pay. The fee schedule they propose make STL the 2nd highest in the nation to operate out of.

STL went to AA and said, "Here are your landing fees." AA said, "In that case, here is our schedule... with only 20 mainline flights."

STL arrogantly went to SWA and said, "Here's your chance to kill SWA in STL... here's your landing fee prices." SWA said, "Thanks, but no thanks. We've got several areas that we can throw growth right now. In light of these prices, we'll reduce our capacity at STL by 8%. Have a LUVly day."

STL, not finished yet went to Dave Needdleman. STL said, "Yada, yada. Here's your prices." JBLU countered with a flight schedule of over 140 flights per day in and out of STL... but the last document shown was the pricing schedule that would enable it to happen (nowhere near what STL was wanting).

STL refused.

Dave said, "Then the only JBLU aircraft you will see in STL will be a divert."

History lesson over.

Maybe JBLU and STL have worked through some of the issues?
Click to expand...

Flylow....Where did you get that info from? Its is very educational! I agree with you, STL has its collective head up its ass! Once one of the busiest airports in the nation, they have really screwed that airport up!
regards,
737
 
I don't know much about STL but it seems to me that CMH could do rather well. Easy to get in and out off and I can't imagine the fees would be all that high.
 
FLYLOW22 said:
STL would be a wonderful place for a MW hub but... some brief history is in need here.

STL City, which controls the revenue generated in the city proper and the airport has it's collective head up it's ass.

STL has bickered for at least 20 years on the expansion project. It's done now and they have 3 parallel runways to use for takeoffs and landings... but not simultaneously. The new control tower is in the IFR clearway for missed approaches off of an ILS from the north and in the approach path of arrivals from the south. Idiots.

So what they have is a huge, EXPENSIVE, inefficient airport plan... and they want the airlines to pay for it because the rest of STL which is STL County (90% of the population in STL) has absolved themselves of the issue.

Real team players.

STL city now has a HUGE bill to pay. The fee schedule they propose make STL the 2nd highest in the nation to operate out of.


Maybe JBLU and STL have worked through some of the issues?
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If this does come to fruition, STL will have undoubtedly offered a subsidized growth plan for B6.

The original cost per pax was to go from $5 to $13 when the construction was completed based on estimates in 2004. This was based on the massive cutback from AA. Since airlines are responsible for approximately $350M of the total $1.05B tab, this is a viable number for Jetblue and the existing carriers to add a $1 surcharge to tickets. It was recommended by major business' in the area that fees be capped in the $8 to $9 range to maintain the airport in a growth mode. It's possible these fees could actually be reduced from that amount if Jetblue brings their anticipated revenue with 140 flts per day, thus benefitting all airlines serving the area.

The new runway/taxiways were supposed to increase efficiency by 64%. Although if properly planned this number probably would have been much higher, but still it has to make the airport a much more viable option for a hub than other large airports in the midwest.

:pimp:
 
Charlie Brown said:
I have one thing to say to all of this---Kansas City.
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Does Kansas City have a large empty concourse to accomodate B6?


:pimp:
 
I know the airport and the people of The Greater STL area are waiting for a "knight in Shinning (Blue) Armor" to show up. I think after what AA did to the people of TWA and the State of MO, people would love to see them burn. If a new Low Cost alternative came in and took one of the empty concourses (there are 2 now!) and started a Mid-West presence, the city/2.5+ million people would embrace them with arms wide open.

Maybe the City/Business community would do the same thing they did for TWA years ago to raise cash. Buy a certain number of Future tickets, thus guaranteeing the Revenue for awhile....
 
....and besides there is a nice new runway that isn't being used much at STL :) :(. plus lots and lots of empty gates
 
Hair-on-Fire said:
Kansas City and KMCI are in Missouri, smartass :)
Click to expand...

In that area (near Platte City), Kansas and Missouri are the same. In fact, Kansas doesn't begin its unfortunate existence of flat, empty "loneliness" until you get to Topeka. Then Kansas becomes Eastern Colorado.

 
bluejuice787 said:
However, is primarily funded and suported by the state of Kansas, dumbass.
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What!?! Have you ever even been to Kansas City? KCK is to Kansas City what E. St Louis is to St Louis. MCI is owned, operated and located in Missouri. The state of Kansas has nothing to do with it.
 
Caveman said:
What!?! Have you ever even been to Kansas City? KCK is to Kansas City what E. St Louis is to St Louis. MCI is owned, operated and located in Missouri. The state of Kansas has nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...

Comparing Johnson Co. with East St. Louis? DAYAM!
 
Not to argue semantics here, but I believe most of KCI's (MCI) funds come from federal sources, and the remaining from the city (only like 1%) and the state of Missouri. I could be wrong, but I believe the state of Kansas has nothing to do with it. Johnson county would have little to do with the funding of KCI, with the exception of any user fees its residents pay when flying into/ out of KCI.

And I have to agree KCK is pretty rough, but that is not in Johnson county.
 
I think there would be room for B6 at MCI. No carrier has replaced the void left from Vanguard's demise. There are no empty terminals per se, but there are plenty of empty gates.
 
Cak.......

I saw CAK in our list of cities to choose from on our bidding program. It hasn't been announced, but it could have been put in there prematurely.
Those who have access to jetBlue's ClassBid program can look and see for yourselves. It was in there last night.

CAK = Akron, Ohio


BBD
 

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