JetBlue selling (6) more planes

[Ifly101]

Jet Blue = PEOPLExpress

People say that on here all the time. What are the actual similarities there bubba? Other than the fact that you wish for it to be the case?

 

[clickclickboom]

It is a good thing you saw a 195, Were you using your imagnation? we don't have any.

Cut him a break I am sure he meant the 190.. The only point that is spot on here is the payrates. When JB was new it was easy to say to the pilots " Hey we are going to pay $80 an hour on the 320 and you will get stock and profit sharing. When we turn a profit we will raise the rates to industry...

The same scenario has played out with the 190 EXCEPT for the fact that there is no $25,000-$40,000 profit sharing checks OR stock options that were issued at $1 and sold by many of the early pilots for literally hundreds of thousands of dollars. The 190 is a mainline jet and honestly based on JB's 5 core values the plane should pay the same as 320 rates..

The latest proposal by a member of the pilot compensation group is a $10 raise straight across the board for all 320 seats and to bring up the 190 rates to 85% of the 320 rates..

320 around $130

$61 rt seat

190 would go to about $105 with yr 1 fo going to about $50

 

[Lake Alice]

Cut him a break I am sure he meant the 190.. The only point that is spot on here is the payrates. When JB was new it was easy to say to the pilots " Hey we are going to pay $80 an hour on the 320 and you will get stock and profit sharing. When we turn a profit we will raise the rates to industry...

The same scenario has played out with the 190 EXCEPT for the fact that there is no $25,000-$40,000 profit sharing checks OR stock options that were issued at $1 and sold by many of the early pilots for literally hundreds of thousands of dollars. The 190 is a mainline jet and honestly based on JB's 5 core values the plane should pay the same as 320 rates..

The latest proposal by a member of the pilot compensation group is a $10 raise straight across the board for all 320 seats and to bring up the 190 rates to 85% of the 320 rates..

320 around $130

$61 rt seat

190 would go to about $105 with yr 1 fo going to about $50

Did the PCG come out with their results? Where did you guys hear this?

 

[radarlove]

Out of curiosity, why would JBLU management listen to recommendations from a non-union advisory committee? I know that they did "back in the day", but now that profit margins are squeezed, is it even reasonable to expect pay raises?

 

[Dogwood]

Yes, that is funny, but are they selling planes?

Yes they have. Go look in the desert and that will confirm my answer.

 

[J32driver]

Out of curiosity, why would JBLU management listen to recommendations from a non-union advisory committee? I know that they did "back in the day", but now that profit margins are squeezed, is it even reasonable to expect pay raises?

Good question. I guess the only real answer is how much does it cost to keep the pilot's from organizing? And... is management willing to pay that cost? Do they shoot for the bottom and keep their fingers crossed we won't organize? Do they shoot for the middle and hope everyone has reasonable expectations? Do they tell us all to go pound sand? Who knows. Nothing to do but wait and see.

If they tell us to pound sand, management will have problems on their hands quicker than what I think they would expect. If they shoot for the bottom, they still wind up with problems on the horizon. If they shoot for the middle and come up with a regular mechanism for improvements and increases, then I think the pilot's will be willing to spool down for a bit. Long term disability, medical costs, and retirement are really the 3 items that seem to have most people upset. Well... that and the 190 pay, but thats a given.

 

[radarlove]

Here's an interesting fact that might bear looking into. The NLRB generally will recognize a "union" if the company also recognizes it. What's interesting is that the company might not even think that it's a union, the company only thinks it's an "employee committee", but if it walks like a duck and quacks, then the company has a union on its hands.

In this case, a card campaign is not even necessary, you simply petition the department to recognize the committee as a bargaining representative and Bob's your uncle.

The whole reason for this is to discourage "company sponsered" unions. Companies generally can't say, "Hey, you don't need an outside union, we'll just put one together for you", for obvious reasons. So when companies start using employee "committees" that set pay rates (or influence them) and other work rules, the company, by being progressive, has inadvertently sponsered its own union. Oops.

NLRB just says, "Ok, thanks, the guys will take it from here" and certify it. That's why Japanese-style managment never was able become adopted in a wide-spread way, the collaborative labor committees are really unions under US law. Since unions can collective bargain and committees can't, oops.

Here's an interesting link about some guys who got denied, but it leads to lots of interesting information about exactly what I'm talking about, if you read down and follow the links.

http://humanresources.about.com/od/involvementteams/l/aaei_wins.htm

Anyway, sounds like JBLU pilots already have a union.

 

[Lake Alice]

Radarlove,

I'm not an expert on this but the "Pay Compensation Group" was choosen by management. I don't mean that in a negative or positive just that the pilots did not elect this group. The company sent out an email saying there would be a group who would look into a "total compensation package" for the pilots and then open it up for suggestions.
A few weeks later we were told who was on the group. It included some folks from our values committee(pilots), assistant chiefs, finance folks and a few others.
I do agree with J32driver. The company is at a crossroads with the pilots. We aren't happy but we aren't ready for a union either. To date management hasn't forced that hand but if the pay compensation group doesn't come back with something good for the group you just may see a union organization campaign.
They have also tried to stay away from the word "committee" for the very reason you may be thinking of.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Brittany Spears will become talented LONG before jb gets a union. Though I wish that wasn't the case. Pretty sure that means about 30 more years for my Louisiana queen.

 

[Sailpilot]

Cut him a break I am sure he meant the 190.. The only point that is spot on here is the payrates. When JB was new it was easy to say to the pilots " Hey we are going to pay $80 an hour on the 320 and you will get stock and profit sharing. When we turn a profit we will raise the rates to industry...

The same scenario has played out with the 190 EXCEPT for the fact that there is no $25,000-$40,000 profit sharing checks OR stock options that were issued at $1 and sold by many of the early pilots for literally hundreds of thousands of dollars. The 190 is a mainline jet and honestly based on JB's 5 core values the plane should pay the same as 320 rates..

The latest proposal by a member of the pilot compensation group is a $10 raise straight across the board for all 320 seats and to bring up the 190 rates to 85% of the 320 rates..

320 around $130

$61 rt seat

190 would go to about $105 with yr 1 fo going to about $50

ClkClk,

Can you verify this? I know of not one member of that PCG that has made such a claim.

I only ask to make sure that somebody is not misinformed before making any choices based on what is heard on this board.

 

[regionaltard]

The latest proposal by a member of the pilot compensation group is a $10 raise straight across the board for all 320 seats and to bring up the 190 rates to 85% of the 320 rates..

320 around $130

$61 rt seat

190 would go to about $105 with yr 1 fo going to about $50

How long can you hold your breath?

 

[Lake Alice]

Remember that if this information is correct is only a recommendation. The company will most likely reject the recommendation except for f/o pay.