Jetblue pilots begin organization drive...

[firstthird]

The "what was WN pay/retirement at 6 years" is a bogus argument. SWA was flying to 3 or maybe 6 cities back then and had maybe 20 planes. Jetblue is the size that SWA was when SWA was 20 or 25 years old not 6 years. Tried to look up the numbers for a more exact comparison a while ago but was unsuccessful.

Point is - it is sort of irrelevant to compare SWA in 1977 (pre-deregultion, intra-texas airline) to Jetblue 2007 (over a billion in revenue and 115 planes and 50 destinations, shoot SWA only has 61 cities now)

Jetblue has grown/is growing much faster than SWA did or is when you talk percentages. There are good sides and bad sides to that, says the wise man.

It is sort of silly to be all proud of being a major but want a special exemption when it comes to comparing the fruits of the pilot labor workforce.

But back to the point of the thread. SWA is one of the (if not the) most heavily unionized airlines and it has worked so far. But it does seem to be quite a balancing act. Only the pilots at DAL are union and that didn't seem to keep DAL in more financially healthy than NWA or UAL. It isn't the unions (or at least not most of it).

 

[NuGuy]

I can definitely agree with that statement.

When I was at PCL, only 1 or 2 guys/gals out of a dozen were college-educated mid-20's pilots with experience in flight instruction / charter and working their way through the ranks.

The rest were either all PFT folks or 2nd career folks or both. Quite a few are friends, but I really get upset when they look at JB pay and think that $100k by year 5 CA is all they'll ever need, especially if it's double or 4 or 5 times what they were making before.

Wonder how long it will take them to start changing their tune. Also wonder if they will EVER realize it was THEIR OWN WILLINGNESS to accept a job that paid food-stamp wages as an F/O that helped drag the industry down to where they're lucky to break 6 figures EVER.

The more people who take these jobs at startups for $65k a year as a CA on a Boeing or Airbus aircraft, the lower the wages across the industry will go.

P*sses me off...

/rant

Heyas Lear,

Again, I agree. But this is a problem in more than just our industry.

A friend of mine is a DVM...he busted is a$$ through 4 years of undergrad, and 4 more years of vet school, and has to work HARD to make the payment on his student loans.

He tells me that a large proportion of his class were "trust fund kids". After graduation, these people could care less about what they earned, just that they are doing something "fun". He tells me it makes it VERY difficult to set the bar to keep a livable wage without being a complete workaholic.

Another friend of mine is a professional photographer. He tells me that every time he turns around, some hobbyist with a camera and a copy of photoshop is undercutting him. It doesn't matter that they suck, because that is only apparent after the fact.

Another trend that you are seeing is companies, such as trucking outfits, targeting the over 55 crowd. They like these people because typically these empty-nesters already have a funded retirement, and are looking to do something to pass the time. Any $$$ they make is a bonus. These golden oldies make it difficult, to say the least...not only do they make it difficult to keep the bar up, but they don't even need the money.

Back in the day, I knew a dentist type. I guess he got bored with dentistry, bought his ratings and PFTed at a regional. He made 1/6 of what he could have made just doing 2-3 days of temp work a week. He finally got tired of flying and went back to dentistry full time. So not only did he keep the bar low, when it got too tough, he bailed out, leaving everyone that couldn't leave holding the bag.

P!sses me off, too...

Nu

 

[Lake Alice]

The "what was WN pay/retirement at 6 years" is a bogus argument. SWA was flying to 3 or maybe 6 cities back then and had maybe 20 planes. Jetblue is the size that SWA was when SWA was 20 or 25 years old not 6 years. Tried to look up the numbers for a more exact comparison a while ago but was unsuccessful.

Point is - it is sort of irrelevant to compare SWA in 1977 (pre-deregultion, intra-texas airline) to Jetblue 2007 (over a billion in revenue and 115 planes and 50 destinations, shoot SWA only has 61 cities now)

Jetblue has grown/is growing much faster than SWA did or is when you talk percentages. There are good sides and bad sides to that, says the wise man.

It is sort of silly to be all proud of being a major but want a special exemption when it comes to comparing the fruits of the pilot labor workforce.

But back to the point of the thread. SWA is one of the (if not the) most heavily unionized airlines and it has worked so far. But it does seem to be quite a balancing act. Only the pilots at DAL are union and that didn't seem to keep DAL in more financially healthy than NWA or UAL. It isn't the unions (or at least not most of it).

I'll add another comparison. Take a look at kids today. They mature at a rate much, much faster than we did at the same age. Years a go kids had time to develope without the pressures of mainstream today. They still had pressure on them but outside factors were not so great.
SWA built a following and developed a business plan over many, many years. Jetblue is trying to do it overnight in a much more hostile environment. WN and B6 have LCC in common and not much else.