Jetblue pilots begin organization drive...

[Lear70]

See? There's hope for you yet! :laugh: Seriously, even my wife doesn't agree with me all the time...and we're still madly in love.

(Ok...that was kinda creepy)

Ummm... yeah. it was.

Disagree. That's never an issue! If your pilot group has authorized a strike, and the reps vote to reject the final offer at the end of the Cooling Off Period, you strike. We did it in '98 and it wasn't a difficult decision. Comair pilots did it for 89-days in '01.

That's not the issue I'm speaking about. I'm speaking about the President's ability to force you back to work. Doesn't do much good to strike when 10 minutes later you're forced back to work.

Which President? I think our current President would intervene if a large number of pilot groups were to reach the end of a Cooling Off Period at the same time. To get there, the NMB would have to declare an impasse. The NMB is appointed by the President. That gives the man in the White House two bites at the apple when it comes to pushing airline unions to accept what management offers.

Exactly.

Which President? Doesn't really matter. I've seen first-hand how Mrs. Clinton deals with employees and don't think we'd see any relief from her on a Democratic ticket more than whoever shows on the Republican ticket (and I do believe it's going to be that kind of race). Either way, we're screwed if they're not labor-friendly and order everyone back to work.

I guess I don't understand your questions. For a strike to work it has to be 1) legal 2) executed by 99% of the pilots.

You forget #3. It has to be allowed to play out and not prevented by the President ordering the pilots back to work a la' American Airlines. Remember that one?

If you're familiar with the way the polling is used, then you know it is most effective when it is used to establish priorities, as opposed to specific numbers.

I disagree on that last part. yes, it sets priorities, but it also sets certain dollar ranges that are acceptable for the majority of the pilot group in ranges by seat.

Every Wilson Polling call I've ever received has included percentage raise minimums. ALPA has that data, whether an individual MEC uses it is arguable (although I wouldn't believe you if you told me the MEC never used that data).

And let me repeat: You will sign a "crappy" T.A. only when you believe the alternative is worse. If a majority of the pilots feel the T.A. is better than the alternative...it passes.

Again, let me repeat: the MEC bears a HUGE part in whether or not a T.A. is signed. When Wychor came to the MSA pilots and said, "This is the best we can do", his pilots believed them, even though they were fully ready and able to strike that night.

The same is true at any airline. When your elected representatives come to you and say, "This is the best we can do and here are the alternatives" then proceed to paint a doom-and-gloom picture, the pilots will follow their elected representatives 9 times out of 10. If you were to tell them that it WILL take a strike but you believe the company will capitulate, I guarantee you it'd get a "NO" vote.

How often has a pilot group actually gone AGAINST a T.A. that had the FULL support of the MEC? Not just one or two lone guys, but the ENTIRE MEC saying, "This is great! Sign here!" then it gets a NO vote?

I'd wager not often.

Speaking as someone who has "followed-through" and gone on strike, I find your conclusion factually lacking. Plenty of pilot groups in the last few years HAVE been fully prepared to walk. But let me repeat: The strike must be legal. If a judge prevents your job action, you comply. To suggest otherwise is to start down a slippery slope.

I didn't suggest anything of the sort, and you might find my conclusion factually lacking, but I guarantee you about 40% of the MSA pilots, 30% of the NWA pilots, etc, etc understand EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

Too many people allow themselves to be lead by people who often have THEIR OWN best interests at heart and ALPA has ALWAYS had the ability to manipulate their pilot groups' votes. It's about spin, and ALPA has some of the best communications/spin experts in the biz.

Regardless of the outcome of the negotiating process, there are going to be pilots who will feel their expectations weren't honored. If those expectations are shared by a clear minority...too bad. If they are shared by most pilots, you put the wrong pilots in office. And THAT is something you have control over!

Not after the fact. Once the voting is done, you're screwed and it's too late for a recall.

 

[Aviator7576]

timeout

Not meaning to hijack the thread, but I would like to thank OhRyan for changing his avatar <BG>. I feel proud once more to be a former part of the P3 community.

Now back to our normal b*tchin' and moanin'...

Aviator7576

 

[jbucpt]

I see you like to compare your rates to those of bankrupt airlines or recently bankrupt airlines. However you conveniently forgot to compare your rates to another bankrupt carrier, DAL. We fly similar gauge equipment? Why don't you compare our 737-800 rates with your A320 rates. We're in bankruptcy and according to you we've bent over. Surely you must have a higher rate. I didn't think so.

Get back to cleaning the cabin.

im comparing the jetblue rates with other ALPA carriers that fly A320'S. its too bad their ALPA contracts did not protect "their industry leading payrates" (or yours when compared to southwest 737 rates) when the economy went south.

you might be "proud" that your 737 rates are higher than jetblues at the present time. however, if delta kepts losing money every quarter, who knows when you'll stop spreading those butt-checks.

 

[roadrunnerblue]

Does JetBlue care about attracting "quality" pilots going forward? If so, actions need to speak louder than words... I know of two current JetBlue pilots who are seriously considering returning to Netjets - as FOs on Citations.

In the meantime, the "quality" pilots will be looking at SWA, UPS, Fedex and some of the legacies that have or will restart their hiring soon instead of JetBlue. Is that something JetBlue wants or will be proud of going forward? Doubt it. It's all about SIGNAL VALUE and messaging to the pilot community...

First one: NO, JBU has 10.000 Cessna 150 applicants on file (also see the low requirements on the website)

Second one: yes

 

[FDJ2]

you might be "proud" that your 737 rates are higher than jetblues at the present time. however, if delta kepts losing money every quarter, who knows when you'll stop spreading those butt-checks.

Last I checked JBLU wasn't doing too well.

Maybe you could talk some smack about DAL payrates if your rates were actually higher than DAL's for like equipment, but they aren't, so why don't you go on back and clean the cabin like a good boy.

 

[jbucpt]

Last I checked JBLU wasn't doing too well.

Maybe you could talk some smack about DAL payrates if your rates were actually higher than DAL's for like equipment, but they aren't, so why don't you go on back and clean the cabin like a good boy.

another retarded statement from you regarding JBLU. you really need to start reading a business section and not just your ALPA magazine.

now, like a good DALPA bit*ch, keep spreading those butt-checks.

 

[Fins Up]

, so why don't you go on back and clean the cabin like a good boy.

Seriously, you can't tell me that's the best you can come up with.

 

[FDJ2]

another retarded statement from you regarding JBLU. you really need to start reading a business section and not just your ALPA magazine.

JetBlue Swings To A Loss In Q3; Plans To Reduce Growth Rate By Cutting Fleet - Update
Tuesday, October 24, 2006; Posted: 11:47 AM


You were saying.

Go back and clean the cabin son.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Lear70/OR-

The problem I see in having all contracts ammendable at teh same time is "jacking up the house". Example.. DAL got great rates off the UAL2000 contracts.

In addition, how can we control that the ammendable contracts will be TA'd at the same?

 

[Fins Up]

JetBlue Swings To A Loss In Q3; Plans To Reduce Growth Rate By Cutting Fleet - Update
Tuesday, October 24, 2006; Posted: 11:47 AM


You were saying.

Go back and clean the cabin son.

Wow, that is one weak arguement.
First of all that headline is more than two months old now.
Second we have been forecasting a loss for a while now but may actually come out of this year in the black (unlike a lot of other airlines).
Third, we have not cut our fleet - still coming out with net positive aircraft gains for both fleet types.
Fourth, we are still forecasting a good growth rate for 2007.
Lastly, you gotta be kidding me with the "go clean the cabin" thing. Show some originality for crying out loud.