JetBlue new top of scale pay rate ??

[coogebeachhotel]

"I beg of you, Monsieur, watch yourself.***** Be on guard.***** This place is full of vultures, vultures everywhere, everywhere."

 

[banger]

Tomorrow might be the "Big" day. We will see..........

 

[$$$4nothin]

The problem is that I've been hearing exactly that for at least 5 years. It's always future performance that will determine our decision, not past actions. There have been a number of "last straws" here, the most recent of which was the horrible medical plan change just six months ago. But our pilots tend to latch onto the ready-made excuse-du-jour and go back to sleep after a few weeks of outrage. The 3A excuse has already been prepared: some greedy pilots are exhausting the planned budget increase and we can't afford to pay everyone what we used to call PSIA (now peer-competitive). To remain competitive in an uncertain marketplace we can't afford to go ahead with the planned pay review, etc., etc. I could write this stuff in my sleep I've heard it so often. And most of the pilots will take it in uncritically like sheep and come back in on their day off to pick up an iPad or something.

I don't see any indication that this time is any different from the last. I hope I'm wrong.

Well luckily we have timing on our side this drive. The company will not be able to say vote down a union and we will give you this. Luckily this time the company will have to throw all its cards on the table moments before the official drive starts and a vote happens. Time for the company to put up or shut up. Again if they want to keep ALPA off property they will make every pilot equal to the 3A guys and the 190 drivers will be setting the bar for 190 drivers at every other company.

Then hopefully we vote ALPA in anyway because guys are smart enough to see they need the protections only a CBA and ALPA can provide us

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Well luckily we have timing on our side this drive. The company will not be able to say vote down a union and we will give you this. Luckily this time the company will have to throw all its cards on the table moments before the official drive starts and a vote happens. Time for the company to put up or shut up. Again if they want to keep ALPA off property they will make every pilot equal to the 3A guys and the 190 drivers will be setting the bar for 190 drivers at every other company.

Then hopefully we vote ALPA in anyway because guys are smart enough to see they need the protections only a CBA and ALPA can provide us

The elephant in the room is merger protection. No matter how much lipstick is put on the language, it will always be insufficient from pilot career perspective . It is not in the BOD interest to have iron-clad merger agreement language. The BOD represents shareholders. Period. Barger works for the BOD. Don't forget this. The interest of pilots is at odds with that of shareholders. The upside to the JBLU stock is a merger. And lets be honest the stock price has been stuck in suspended animation for 6 years. You don't think the BOD is feeling the heat from institutional shareholders? Extensive merger protection language makes a transaction more difficult. That is business. Touchy-feely only goes so far the rest is cold hearted economics,

 

[$$$4nothin]

Agree completely

 

[Blue Dude]

You see it. I see it. But I have seen too often the wretched ability of this pilot group to ignore the obvious and just not be bothered to pay attention. As long as the checks clear, everything's good, right? They come in to pick up company required equipment on their time off without pay. They are so afraid of offending they can't even say no to pulling on blue gloves in front of the passengers. If we can't get them to act in their own best interest now, in the moment, how do you expect them to act on year three of a concentrated campaign when the real gloves are off and the "free" goodies are gone? Answer: we'll never find out because they'll cave the first month their Flica alerts dry up. I have no faith in this pilot group.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Many of the group are emotionally invested, completely. This job is their identity. It is dangerous to get emotionally attached to investments.

We do a job. And we do it very well.

It is our responsibility to look out for ourselves, our fellow pilots, and our families.

This gig will not last forever. Statistics do not lie.

 

[AKAAB]

As I see it, they cannot simply bring everyone up to the new 3A scale. The 3A arbitration will set pay scales for the claimants, retroactive to 2007. In a nutshell, the arbitrator is simply correcting the payscale to what it should have been for the claimants had JetBlue complied with the 3A clause as they wrote it. Now, once the payscales are "corrected", any change in the current payscale that is given to newhires, i.e. making them "whole", if not also given to the rest of the pilot group, will trigger another 3A claim.

The contract JetBlue wrote is very clear. Any raise given to new hires gets applied to all payrates and all longevities. Thus, if they give the new hires a raise to bring them up to 3A, they will have to give the same percentage to everyone.

Now, they can try to get around this by making everyone whole, while keeping the first-year pay the same, but they will find it nearly impossible to fill any vacancies with a B-scale for newhires in the upcoming hiring boom. Eventually, they will have to raise pay for newhires...and give the same raise to everyone else per the 3A clause in the employment agreement.

JetBlue has painted themselves in a corner without a paddle...

 

[ASA_Aviator]

As I see it, they cannot simply bring everyone up to the new 3A scale. The 3A arbitration will set pay scales for the claimants, retroactive to 2007. In a nutshell, the arbitrator is simply correcting the payscale to what it should have been for the claimants had JetBlue complied with the 3A clause as they wrote it. Now, once the payscales are "corrected", any change in the current payscale that is given to newhires, i.e. making them "whole", if not also given to the rest of the pilot group, will trigger another 3A claim.

The contract JetBlue wrote is very clear. Any raise given to new hires gets applied to all payrates and all longevities. Thus, if they give the new hires a raise to bring them up to 3A, they will have to give the same percentage to everyone.

Now, they can try to get around this by making everyone whole, while keeping the first-year pay the same, but they will find it nearly impossible to fill any vacancies with a B-scale for newhires in the upcoming hiring boom. Eventually, they will have to raise pay for newhires...and give the same raise to everyone else per the 3A clause in the employment agreement.

JetBlue has painted themselves in a corner without a paddle...

I think that IF they came to the pilots and said, "in the interest of good will, we are going to bring everyone up to the 3A rate," several things would happen:

1. The union vote would face another serious challenge.

2. The pilots would embrace that with open arms, and we would all be on the same page.

We know that isn't going to happen, but I do not think that bringing everyone to parity = another 3A. That's just silly. What, you're going punish the company for trying to make everyone whole? The arbitrator would laugh you out of the building.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Will the pilots that are eligible for 3A but did not sign to the arbitration be awarded the back pay and interest as well (assuming this is the direction of the arbitrator penalty decision )?

Even if management wanted to raise the rates to the 3A standard how will the BOD/shareholders react to this? My guess is that when the BOD sees the final bill and discusses with the major shareholders there will be some hot heads.

If the 3A eligible pilots, but non-participant, are not brought up to par with those awarded 3A, will those pilots file a new arbitration claim? So will we have a round 2 of 3A?

What a sticky situation.

 

[Blue Dude]

As I see it, they cannot simply bring everyone up to the new 3A scale. The 3A arbitration will set pay scales for the claimants, retroactive to 2007. In a nutshell, the arbitrator is simply correcting the payscale to what it should have been for the claimants had JetBlue complied with the 3A clause as they wrote it. Now, once the payscales are "corrected", any change in the current payscale that is given to newhires, i.e. making them "whole", if not also given to the rest of the pilot group, will trigger another 3A claim.

The contract JetBlue wrote is very clear. Any raise given to new hires gets applied to all payrates and all longevities. Thus, if they give the new hires a raise to bring them up to 3A, they will have to give the same percentage to everyone.

Now, they can try to get around this by making everyone whole, while keeping the first-year pay the same, but they will find it nearly impossible to fill any vacancies with a B-scale for newhires in the upcoming hiring boom. Eventually, they will have to raise pay for newhires...and give the same raise to everyone else per the 3A clause in the employment agreement.

JetBlue has painted themselves in a corner without a paddle...

I think JetBlue can finesse this problem by keeping the current year one rate the same but raising the rates for all other longevities to match the award. Since there are no year one claimants, there would be no year one B-scale. Everyone else on the property would be brought to the same rate going forward. Yes, it would suck being the only pilots not to get a mid-year raise, but they would have unexpectedly higher pay to look forward to from year two on, which shouldn't be that hard a sell. And if year one pay wasn't a deal-breaker for would-be new hires before, the lack of change (but with higher year 2+ pay) wouldn't make the company less attractive, would it? There are no perfect solutions, but this one isn't bad. It would require JetBlue to begin leading on the issue and be proactive, though, and they've shown no sign of doing so. It's become obvious that though they could fix it, they won't until after they're made to.

 

[Blue Dude]

Will the pilots that are eligible for 3A but did not sign to the arbitration be awarded the back pay and interest as well (assuming this is the direction of the arbitrator penalty decision )?

Um, no.

If the 3A eligible pilots, but non-participant, are not brought up to par with those awarded 3A, will those pilots file a new arbitration claim? So will we have a round 2 of 3A?

Too late. Statute of limitations is 6 years. Guess how long ago the 2007 violation was?

 

[coogebeachhotel]

I think JetBlue can finesse this problem by keeping the current year one rate the same but raising the rates for all other longevities to match the award. Since there are no year one claimants, there would be no year one B-scale. Everyone else on the property would be brought to the same rate going forward. Yes, it would suck being the only pilots not to get a mid-year raise, but they would have unexpectedly higher pay to look forward to from year two on, which shouldn't be that hard a sell. And if year one pay wasn't a deal-breaker for would-be new hires before, the lack of change (but with higher year 2+ pay) wouldn't make the company less attractive, would it? There are no perfect solutions, but this one isn't bad. It would require JetBlue to begin leading on the issue and be proactive, though, and they've shown no sign of doing so. It's become obvious that though they could fix it, they won't until after they're made to.

Assuming the BOD signs off..........

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Um, no.



Too late. Statute of limitations is 6 years. Guess how long ago the 2007 violation was?

In New York State this does not apply to contract law.

 

[Blue Dude]

In New York State this does not apply to contract law.

Even contract violations become stale over time. I understood that in NY state that limit was 6 years, but I'll defer to your wisdom.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

6 years from knowledge of breach of contract violation. I would argue that they(Non-3A arbitration group) learned about the contract breach less than 30 days ago when the arbitrator declared that there was a breach.

 

[Flyby1206]

The BOD represents shareholders. Period. Barger works for the BOD. Don't forget this. The interest of pilots is at odds with that of shareholders.

I'm a little late to the thread, but this bears repeating. 3A rates are nice, but getting paid $250/hr for 0 hours of flying doesnt do you much good.

 

[B6Busdriver]

I'm a little late to the thread, but this bears repeating. 3A rates are nice, but getting paid $250/hr for 0 hours of flying doesnt do you much good.

$250 an hour??? Maybe $208, which is not out of line in the industry.

 

[Flyer1015]

So what happened? What's with these Captains and the new higher payrate? Background/details missing. Just a overall in-a-nutshell should suffice...

 

[coogebeachhotel]

The dynamics of a low share price are in play. Neelman and the development bank of Brazil(BNDES) are formulating a plan to purchase JetBlue. And yes this is legal as DN is an US citizen. This information came from inside BNDES yesterday. It caused a rather large spike in share price. If you think about it JetBlue has been making itself attractive for takeover for a period of time. Massive reduction of long-term debt and massive accumulation of cash. Combine these actions with a low share price and you have vultures circling.

What may come. We shall see.