JetBlue E-190 article

[wndshr]

how much did delta lose again for the quarter??? 2.2 mil?????

 

[General Lee]

Wndshr,


You are thinking $2.2Billion like everyone else, but you and everyone else didn't really read the articles. Most of that ($1.5B) was a write down or "charge" for ASA/Comair, and the rest was a loss that did not take into account any of our company pay cuts yet----which will be seen in the next quarter. Yes, the last quarter was bad, but it should get better with the pay cuts now being factored in.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[8vATE]

Wndshr,


You are thinking $2.2Billion like everyone else, but you and everyone else didn't really read the articles. Most of that ($1.5B) was a write down or "charge" for ASA/Comair, and the rest was a loss that did not take into account any of our company pay cuts yet----which will be seen in the next quarter. Yes, the last quarter was bad, but it should get better with the pay cuts now being factored in.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Oh yea "Lee"..

its only a "paper loss"...

Song will save you....

Nothing like creating a NEW BETTER airline to serve selected markets to show that your OLD CRUMMY airline product blows...

Why don't you free up a little bandwidth for everyone else?


And don't assume all of us are stupid... we read the DAL financials and saw the "writedowns".....

 

[General Lee]

8vATE,


So, you can read? Good for you. Maybe then you can also see through the murk and see the light. Having secured an extra $2.3 billion a year in savings from labor and leases is bound to help out---and the last quarter did not reflect any of that. That is what people do not realize. And, Song does affect you guys---it absolutely does. We have a better product and we are aimed right at you---and it will grow too. That doesn't help you guys out at all. To say that Song doesn't affect you is naive.

And guess what? I paid for the right to post----so enjoy or just put me on ignore. Please, I don't get anything from you as a contribution to this site---so I really don't care.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[On Your Six]

Oh yea "Lee"..

its only a "paper loss"...

Song will save you....

Nothing like creating a NEW BETTER airline to serve selected markets to show that your OLD CRUMMY airline product blows...

Why don't you free up a little bandwidth for everyone else?


And don't assume all of us are stupid... we read the DAL financials and saw the "writedowns".....

I suppose you believe everything you read in the USA Today too. Everyone has been belittling Song with no concrete facts to support their assertions and now Song is expanding... Hmmmm. Why expand Song if it isn't contributing positively? Why make public statements about Song and its positive performance if new government regulations (Sarbanes-Oxley) would severely punish you for misrepresenting any facts to the public? I've flown both Song (and I have no relation to Delta) and JetBlue and I like the Song product much better. You can only eat so many blue chips or blue M&Ms before you want to barf...

 

[dlredline]

I suppose you believe everything you read in the USA Today too. Everyone has been belittling Song with no concrete facts to support their assertions and now Song is expanding... Hmmmm. Why expand Song if it isn't contributing positively? Why make public statements about Song and its positive performance if new government regulations (Sarbanes-Oxley) would severely punish you for misrepresenting any facts to the public? I've flown both Song (and I have no relation to Delta) and JetBlue and I like the Song product much better. You can only eat so many blue chips or blue M&Ms before you want to barf...

Six,

This has been discussed in an earlier thread. Sarbanes-Oxley (SOX404) doesn't say this, and it certainly doesn't apply to an entity whose numbers are consolidated into DAL and not required to be publicly disclosed. And it's true that people have been left to surmise about Song because there "are no concrete facts to support their assertions", yet this also applies to your own assumptions regarding their expansion. Can't have it both ways. And for the record, I've flown both airlines, and I personally prefer JetBlue's service and comfort, never having barfed once.

Have a great day!

Red

 

[General Lee]

Red,


Well, Song was voted ahead of Jetblue as best LCC, and that is a fact. And, I would think (correctly, again) that what is said in the public arena (like print articles) could be held against you-------in a court of law. Grinstein stated last Feb that Song was "profitable"-----and I would think that means something in that direction. Maybe it was by $1, I don't know. You don't know either. Sarbanes Oxley was created after the Enron debacle, and it was created to protect everyone from false statements and false accounting practices. The CEO and CFO are really held accountable, and could go to jail. So, all in all, we don't know but have to "believe" in what was said, because there are ramifications if the info was false.


Have a great blue day RED.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jetblue320]

Well, Song was voted ahead of Jetblue as best LCC, and that is a fact.

Just curious, voted ahead of Jetblue by whom? Which pub/agency I mean.

C yaaaa

 

[dlredline]

Red,


Well, Song was voted ahead of Jetblue as best LCC, and that is a fact. And, I would think (correctly, again) that what is said in the public arena (like print articles) could be held against you-------in a court of law. Grinstein stated last Feb that Song was "profitable"-----and I would think that means something in that direction. Maybe it was by $1, I don't know. You don't know either. Sarbanes Oxley was created after the Enron debacle, and it was created to protect everyone from false statements and false accounting practices. The CEO and CFO are really held accountable, and could go to jail. So, all in all, we don't know but have to "believe" in what was said, because there are ramifications if the info was false.


Have a great blue day RED.


Bye Bye--General Lee

GL,

I'll repeat that my personal preference is for JetBlue over Song, though both offer better service and pricing than most out there. As far as Sarbanes-Oxley (SOX404), you really should read it as it pertains to financial disclosures. Consolidated financial entities, like Song, don't necessarily apply to this legislation since their financials are not required to be disclosed under standard accounting practices seperately. It's akin to saying that "we're doing great on our Florida market", but never having to provide numbers backing it up, since SOX404 applies to a corporate entity as a whole, not in part. The Enron debacle is similar only in that Enron over inflated the financials for the company itself (as a publicly traded entity), not for the "cooked books" of it's subsidiaries.

Could the DAL CEO and CFO come under fire for publicly misrepresenting the numbers of Song? Sure, but not necessarily under SOX404. But the thing that strikes me is that no one has ever seen the numbers on Song, pro or con. And I've researched the Delta CEO statements ("Grinstein"? I like that, nice touch, GL), and I simply can't find where he actually said Song has posted a profit, quarterly or otherwise. If I'm wrong, please point me toward the actual quote so we can set the record straight.

Have a great blue/red/white evening yourself (those are the Delta colors, right?)

Take care,

Red

 

[Flying Freddie]

General Lee,

No matter how good Song is, as long as the losses pile up at DELTA it will be like whistling Dixie past the backruptcy court.

 

[Flying Freddie]

UPDATE 1-Credit analyst sees US Air liquidating by year-end
Tue Feb 1, 2005 04:53 PM ET

NEW YORK, Feb 1 (Reuters) - US Airways Group Inc. (UAIRQ.OB: Quote, Profile, Research) will probably fail in 2005, one casualty of a year that may also see a Delta Air Lines Inc. (DAL.N: Quote, Profile, Research) bankruptcy, an analyst at research firm CreditSights said on Tuesday.

"The 2005 outlook for our airline industry is dismal," Roger King, a debt analyst specializing in airlines, said in a conference call with analysts, portfolio managers, traders and journalists.

"High fuel costs and declining yields in particular should push US Airways into liquidation," King said.

Declining yields, or average revenues per passenger, are hammering major carriers along with high fuel costs, overcapacity, union battles and problems with underfunded pensions and a lack of access to capital, he said.

Bankrupt US Airways, widely seen by analysts as the weakest of a struggling industry, is particularly vulnerable because of its focus on the competitive northeastern market. But few have forecast that the No. 7 U.S. carrier would fail this year.

Told of King's comments on the conference call, US Airways spokesman David Castelveter told Reuters: "We have worked hard to overcome obstacles that many thought were insurmountable, yet like the industry, we still face a number of challenges."

"We are taking the next steps to build an airline that can be successful in a low-fare environment," Castelveter added.

US Airways said last year it was in danger of liquidating before it secured $1 billion in labor concessions.

The airline has said it has operating cash through June, when it hopes to exit bankruptcy, though it will need to find $250 million in equity to do so.

Delta, the No. 3 U.S. airline, secured $1.1 billion in financing from units of General Electric Co. (GE.N: Quote, Profile, Research) and American Express Co. (AXP.N: Quote, Profile, Research) , helping it to avert filing for bankruptcy protection. No similar rescues are likely this year, King said.

Delta officials were not immediately available to comment.

"Delta's own guidance indicates it will not achieve a positive operating margin in 2005, setting up a second liquidity event this fall," King said, adding that the airline's pension and debt loads make it particularly vulnerable.

"Manna will not fall from heaven 2 years in a row," he added. "Look for a bankruptcy this fall."

King said current industry turmoil would likely bolster low-cost carrier Southwest Airlines (LUV.N: Quote, Profile, Research) , already the industry's most valuable airline.

The strength of the Dallas-based airline and other low-cost carriers like JetBlue (JBLU.O: Quote, Profile, Research) is bad news for the sector's traditional carriers, which still have higher cost structures even after aggressive efforts to cut expenses, King said.

"They can just keep the pressure on the legacy carriers from the yield standpoint and force cash outflows that inherently destabilize the balance sheets," he said. (Additional reporting by John Crawley in Washington)

 

[lowecur]

Actually for Wheelchair purposes we shall classify the E-jets as RJ's. If they make them store it by taking out a row of seats, then the passenger should be made to ride it down the back steps at FLL.

Doesn't the FAA require on board storage for 100 pax or more? Just remove one seat.

 

[lowecur]

UPDATE 1-Credit analyst sees US Air liquidating by year-end
Tue Feb 1, 2005 04:53 PM ET

What does this have to do with the E-190? Incidently, I hope he's wrong.

 

[Flying Freddie]

The article has nothing to do with the 190. It was for the good General to read to keep up on current events!

 

[General Lee]

Flying Freddie,


Thanks, here is another article out yesterday:


Delta leads airline rally on upgrade, oil prices
Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:01 PM ET
By Jui Chakravorty


NEW YORK, Jan 31 (Reuters) - Shares of Delta Air Lines (DAL.N: Quote, Profile, Research) led a rally in airline stocks on Monday, as Merrill Lynch raised its ratings on four U.S. carriers, and oil prices slipped on news that oil production would not be cut.

Delta shares, which have tumbled more than 35 percent in the last two months, rose more than 10 percent.

Merrill Lynch analyst Michael Linenberg hiked his ratings on Delta and AirTran Airways (AAI.N: Quote, Profile, Research) shares to "neutral" from "sell," and upgraded America West Airlines (AWA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) and Continental Airlines (CAL.N: Quote, Profile, Research) to "buy" from "neutral."

Shares of all four airlines rose on the New York Stock Exchange after dropping 25 to 30 percent since the start of 2005.

"Our rating upgrades should not be construed as us having a more positive view on industry fundamentals," Linenberg wrote in a research note. "Rather we think the recent sell-off has created a buying opportunity for some of the names," he added.

Delta rose 45 cents, or 8.95 percent, to $5.48 at midday.

"Delta's shares have been the worst performer in our universe," Linenberg said. "We believe the uncertainty of a new fare initiative compounded by higher fuel prices is fully discounted in its stock price," he added, referring to Delta's recent move to slash its fares by as much as 50 percent.

America West, which has cut back its 2005 capacity growth forecast and plans to eliminate most transcontinental flights, will likely see revenue improve in 2005 due to those cuts, Linenberg said.

America West rose 26 cents, or 5.49 percent, to $5.00.

Continental, which hopes to garner $500 million in labor concessions, will achieve the targeted cost cuts within the next several months, Linenberg said. Shares of Continental rose 34 cents, or 3.34 percent, to $10.52.

"Although the revenue environment is expected to be challenging for AirTran for at least the next two quarters, we think its share price accounts for this," Linenberg said.

AirTran shares, which have fallen 24 percent so far this year, rose 41 cents, or 5 percent, to $8.58.

The airline industry, which struggled with a downturn in travel following the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center, in the past year has also been suffering from fare wars stemming from intense competition and an oversupply of seats. Rising fuel prices, the second-highest expense at an airline after labor, have also hurt results.

But the American Stock Exchange Airline Index , down 21.7 percent from the start of the year, rose 2.8 percent to 48.39 on news of lower oil prices.

U.S. light crude prices fell 73 cents to $46.65 a barrel, following OPEC's decision to leave its production unchanged.

Dick McCabe, Merrill Lynch's chief market analyst, believes the index appears to have been in a long, gradual bottom-building process since late 2002, after falling from an early 2001 peak near 180.

"A rally above initial resistance, which is now indicated at 60-62, would be a particularly encouraging sign, indicating that the long potential bottoming process is coming to an end and that a sustainable or major recovery trend is finally evolving," Linenberg said.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

"Unlike some of our competition, all Song flights accomodate the needs of our disabled veterans on board American built jetliners."


New Song advertising campaign

Call FOX News, FDJ2 and I agree on something!

 

[~~~^~~~]

You are thinking $2.2Billion like everyone else, but you and everyone else didn't really read the articles. Most of that ($1.5B) was a write down or "charge" for ASA/Comair

Correct - the airline I fly for is worthless. But all you had to do is ask any of the pilots.

 

[scabseeker]

As a "Vet" I appreciate the sentiment, but being disabled is not a get out of jail free card where everyone caters to your every need and whim.

Wow, so would you prefer to be disabled because everyone caters to you?

Support our troops? I guess as long as they are able-bodied young ones.

 

[jetblue320]

Red,


Well, Song was voted ahead of Jetblue as best LCC, and that is a fact. And, I would think (correctly, again) that what is said in the public arena (like print articles) could be held against you-------in a court of law. Grinstein stated last Feb that Song was "profitable"-----and I would think that means something in that direction. Maybe it was by $1, I don't know. You don't know either. Sarbanes Oxley was created after the Enron debacle, and it was created to protect everyone from false statements and false accounting practices. The CEO and CFO are really held accountable, and could go to jail. So, all in all, we don't know but have to "believe" in what was said, because there are ramifications if the info was false.


Have a great blue day RED.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

This is my second time asking/posting this question to you...............

WHO voted Song ahead of JetBlue as best LCC????? Was it an agency, a magazine, a website????

Serious, I hadn't heard or seen that one............

C yaaa

 

[General Lee]

Airways Magazine and I believe the NY Times paper, doing a survey of LCCs. I will try to look it up and find it. I am not making that up.



Bye Bye---General Lee