Jetblue ALPA results next week...

[B6Driver]

8494 post?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Nice try at backpedaling your way out of your previous stupid comment. Keep your false respect where the sun don't shine. It's hilarious your name on here starts with "Karma."
A**hole!

oh come one, you'd think you have thicker skin.

Congrats by the way! I definitely have a lot of respect for 74 percent of you now!

 

[waveflyer]

8494 post?

Another 1500 and I get a set of steak knives

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

This will make up for some of the union dues lost when AT pilots went to SWA - I know there not all gone over yet!

 

[Dan Roman]

This will make up for some of the union dues lost when AT pilots went to SWA - I know there not all gone over yet!

I don't get the constant anti Alpa rhetoric from the SWA folks on here. It's just another union that represents it's pilots. Whatever an ALPA carrier does is a result of that airlines individual members and their relation with management. Just like any other union.
ALPA bashers come across as pilots that envy the " big boys" but never made it there. Or somehow blame ALPA for what is obviously a career that didn't live up to their expectations.

 

[waveflyer]

Well, if it comes across that way, it says much more about the observer.

The "big boys"

Dan that might be the first dou(he thing I've heard you say.

That said I am not an alpa basher by any stretch. Congratulations JBlu.
Sincerely and honestly.
In a large way, it'll be what you make it.

I will say though dan that I've heard organizers there use one phrase I think does a lot of damage: "angry pilots are active pilots"

However true that is - work rules does not add to our quality of life nearly as much as not being angry and militant all the time about the career. Alpa, does seen to foster the seeds of discontent half as much as management does and it isn't fun.

And they do not (often cannot) LEAD us out of what divides us.

That frustrates pilots

 

[Flyby1206]

So what is it BALPA, JALPA or BLUPA? Yep I'm bored

I like BLUPA. Sounds like a Red Sox announcer when someone drops the ball. "There's anotha wicked funny blupa!"

 

[BUDDHA145]

Haha!!

 

[SWA Bubba]

I don't get the constant anti Alpa rhetoric from the SWA folks on here. It's just another union that represents it's pilots. Whatever an ALPA carrier does is a result of that airlines individual members and their relation with management. Just like any other union.
ALPA bashers come across as pilots that envy the " big boys" but never made it there. Or somehow blame ALPA for what is obviously a career that didn't live up to their expectations.

The post you're responding to was not necessarily an anti-ALPA post. Truly it wasn't. It was a money thing. BTW, that's another problem with having a mega-union with locals: money. Like it or not, ALPA has to concern itself with national money; therefore it's somewhat in a constant recruiting mode. For example, if Delta (one of ALPA's big boys) left ALPA for an in-house union, it would be devastating for ALPA. What is that?--nearly 20-25% of their dues income? Sure, they have fewer pilots to represent, but they wouldn't have 20-25% less national union overhead to go with that loss. As a result, they would be hurt financially.

That's why they're always trying to recruit new member airlines. And that can lead to another issue with "national" interests trumping "local" interests. Remember TWA? An ALPA shop that got the short end of the stick, because ALPA national was courting American pilots and the APA.

I suspect that Dublin's remark that you took offense to was meant tongue-in-cheek, making fun of the money aspect: a new constituent airline to replace the dues from AirTran.

ALPA has done great things for the pilot industry. I believe that. And I'm sure that they'll do important things in the future for their members, especially including BLUPA (I guess that's the new term!), who had no representation before. Every airline needs representation. ALPA is a good choice, but it's not the only good choice, despite PCL's strident admonitions (hmmmm,... you think he might have an agenda?). That's all most of us at Southwest are getting at, Dan. Personally, we'd rather have representation that we know has no other agenda other than improving Southwest pilots' lives and careers.

We all need representation, and although you'd never know it from this board, these unions all work together for the betterment of all. And that's a good thing.

Bubba

 

[Dan Roman]

The post you're responding to was not necessarily an anti-ALPA post. Truly it wasn't. It was a money thing. BTW, that's another problem with having a mega-union with locals: money. Like it or not, ALPA has to concern itself with national money; therefore it's somewhat in a constant recruiting mode. For example, if Delta (one of ALPA's big boys) left ALPA for an in-house union, it would be devastating for ALPA. What is that?--nearly 20-25% of their dues income? Sure, they have fewer pilots to represent, but they wouldn't have 20-25% less national union overhead to go with that loss. As a result, they would be hurt financially.

That's why they're always trying to recruit new member airlines. And that can lead to another issue with "national" interests trumping "local" interests. Remember TWA? An ALPA shop that got the short end of the stick, because ALPA national was courting American pilots and the APA.

I suspect that Dublin's remark that you took offense to was meant tongue-in-cheek, making fun of the money aspect: a new constituent airline to replace the dues from AirTran.

ALPA has done great things for the pilot industry. I believe that. And I'm sure that they'll do important things in the future for their members, especially including BLUPA (I guess that's the new term!), who had no representation before. Every airline needs representation. ALPA is a good choice, but it's not the only good choice, despite PCL's strident admonitions (hmmmm,... you think he might have an agenda?). That's all most of us at Southwest are getting at, Dan. Personally, we'd rather have representation that we know has no other agenda other than improving Southwest pilots' lives and careers.

We all need representation, and although you'd never know it from this board, these unions all work together for the betterment of all. And that's a good thing.

Bubba

I get it and it it's a valid point. But I like to think I'm talking a bigger picture when I'm willing to pay a little higher dues for a union that represents not only my airline, but the profession as a whole. Kind of over the top altruism, I know, but I think it's important that the profession is healthy as well my airline. Again, not sure how realistic that sentiment is, I'm just as guilty as the next pilot when it comes to defending my turf, but we (HA) have been well served by ALPA and we are one of the smallest (although we are the best!)

 

[Dan Roman]

Well, if it comes across that way, it says much more about the observer.

The "big boys"

Dan that might be the first dou(he thing I've heard you say.

Did you forget the ch? I'm taking that as a complement if that's only the first!
Keep in mind my comment is not a big is better sentiment by any means, you know who I work for....it's the perspective that the ALPA bashers are guilty of envy for whatever reason. Or simply unhappy that their career didn't turn out like everyone thought it would when they got their first airline job. Or bitter for something that was not ALPA's fault. Whatever the reaon, it's just a union, they are blamed for a lot of things that are not their fault.

 

[waveflyer]

I for one have never blamed alpa for anything in my career. AND, I happen to be more satisfied with Swapa than my previous unions (twice alpa). And maybe when you got hired, SWA was considered the "small guys", but since 9/11, they've been the best job in passenger flying, debatable with the niche carriers like yourself (more stable though), and debatable again now with delta performing so well again- so there is no one on the list that views the SWA job as settling for less than the "big boys" . That's just history man. Legacies are where you've gone if you couldn't get on with SWA during your furlough

As far as this thread, I full-heatedly agree with the JetBlue pilot vote. Jab was going the full blown ford and Harrison route, and they just don't have the numbers yet to be that effective independently with their mgmt going that route. Alpa was a great choice and glad they'll have a CBA.

 

[PCL_128]

I don't get the constant anti Alpa rhetoric from the SWA folks on here.

Dan, according to some of our guys who have transitioned, both SWAPA and the company force feed the pilots anti-ALPA propaganda constantly. It's no surprise. SWAPA cares about self-preservation, and SWA cares about having a weak union on the property.

 

[PCL_128]

ALPA is a good choice, but it's not the only good choice, despite PCL's strident admonitions (hmmmm,... you think he might have an agenda?).

Sorry, Bubba, but you have no credibility in claiming that some guy who's only months away from leaving the profession entirely has some sort of agenda. I'm just speaking the truth.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Sorry, Bubba, but you have no credibility in claiming that some guy who's only months away from leaving the profession entirely has some sort of agenda. I'm just speaking the truth.

Dude!

That was a good one! I actually passed some of my morning coffee through my nose when I read you imply that you have no agenda. Comic relief as well as cheerleader--well done!

Bubba

 

[Dan Roman]

Dan, according to some of our guys who have transitioned, both SWAPA and the company force feed the pilots anti-ALPA propaganda constantly. It's no surprise. SWAPA cares about self-preservation, and SWA cares about having a weak union on the property.

Well if that's true they really do have a problem with their "culture". Alpa is simply the largest and most effective union. Period. If they feel the need to attack them it really is pretty shallow.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Dan, according to some of our guys who have transitioned, both SWAPA and the company force feed the pilots anti-ALPA propaganda constantly. It's no surprise. SWAPA cares about self-preservation, and SWA cares about having a weak union on the property.

Lemme guess-- you just pulled this little tidbid right out of your azz, right? In over 13 years here, I have never once heard a single mention of ALPA from the company. Not written anywhere, not spoken by anyone at the GO, training center, or by any chief. Ditto SWAPA.

Now I have heard individual pilots mentioning ALPA, mostly in passing about news concerning ALPA-represented carriers. Other than that it's just been funny stuff like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z52psdD6Ry0

You know, the typical crap people put up. No actual malicious or "propaganda" though.

Bubba

 

[PCL_128]

Well if that's true they really do have a problem with their "culture". Alpa is simply the largest and most effective union. Period. If they feel the need to attack them it really is pretty shallow.

It's not surprising. AirTran management and the NPA did the same thing years ago. Hell, the checkairman who did the company presentation to my interview group spent a good few minutes talking about how evil ALPA is and how it's so much better to have an independent union (he left out the part about how he was a SCAB).

 

[SWA Bubba]

Well if that's true they really do have a problem with their "culture". Alpa is simply the largest and most effective union. Period. If they feel the need to attack them it really is pretty shallow.

Not true, Dan. Don't be so quick to push your "I believe" button. Just more anti-SWA/PA crap from the head ALPA cheerleader; i.e. "if it's not ALPA, it's crap!"

Bubba

 

[waveflyer]

It's not surprising. AirTran management and the NPA did the same thing years ago. Hell, the checkairman who did the company presentation to my interview group spent a good few minutes talking about how evil ALPA is and how it's so much better to have an independent union (he left out the part about how he was a SCAB).

So bc it happened at air tran, you decide to just make that up.

I've never heard one thing about alpa here unless it's an individual pilot with an experience.

Sorry, as usual- you're full of sh/t.

And yes, your agenda is ridiculously transparent.