Jet Fuel Prices WILL Be Climbing A LOT, and Soon

[Rick James]

Too bad you can't buy the diesel version here, if you can get 24 out of the V8 then you'd be sure to get 40-45 from the diesel. Your car is still a gas guzzler, if you'd bought an Accord and drove it in the same manner you'd get 40mpg too. Sure it's not union built, but the Accord is just as American as the 300C, probably more so.

Sorry, the diesel version has been around for about 20 years, it's called a Cummins. Thanks to the EPA it has becon much less efficient (14-19 mpg).
Also, the on board computers for MPG's are notoriously innacurate. The only true way to tell would be pen and paper math.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

The other side of oil. Two good article why the price is so inflated

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JE24Dj02.html

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23743273-7583,00.html

 

[Soverytired]

More excuses.......:

What is there to fix? There is NO fuel system, oil system, cooling system, and exhast system. That leaves us with wheels, brakes, an electric motor with a battery charger and converter. Batteries typically last approximately 5 years. Mine has 13 12V batteries which equates to approximately 20/month in additional expenses. The electric "magic" boxes has no moving parts so they rarely need fixing.
charging costs 50-60 cents for most utility companies to fully charge the batteries.

I am a realist and do have a regular car for long distances.

No offense Saab, but once again, it just goes to show that when push comes to shove, people really dont want to make a difference, they are just looking for excuses.

Of course, the obvious response to this is that if every American converted to this tomorrow, the US electrical power grid would collapse.

Increased demand on the gird would mean more fuel for the electric plants, which in the US mostly means COAL, and additional carbon emissions.

Battery powered cars leave a HUGE amount of toxic waste when junked. If you create more toxic waste and burn coal at at plant 500 miles away to power your car you haven't solved anything, you've just dumped your mess on someone else.

Battery powered electric cars are a "feel good" non-solution, not an practical, multi-tiered integrated solution.

 

[jetflyer]

The other side of oil. Two good article why the price is so inflated

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JE24Dj02.html

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23743273-7583,00.html

Good articles Ridethelighting,

I think we're near peak oil that is for sure. I do admit that we could be getting ahead of ourselves with these prices going up so fast so soon. They're definitely slowing US consumption and may be doing the same to other countries that also don't subsidize that heavily the oil price.

Even though demand is rising there is less export oil available to importers like the U.S. because of the countries like Saudi, Russia, Qatar, UAE increasing their internal usage of the oil and exporting less. This is called the Export Land Model. I think this is the main reason for the price rises.

Is there a lot more oil coming online in the next few years? Yes. Will it be the 3-4 ANWR's needed every year to just keep oil production level? Maybe. Will we maybe eek out a gain in oil production for a couple more years with more than 4 Alaska National Wildlife Reserves added every year for a while? Maybe.

Some forecasts say 2012 or later before we really decline. A lot depends on Saudi and Russia. Both appear to be declining which could be bad and mean the declines begin now.

We'll find out in the coming months to years. Let's pray and hope for the best.

Let's hope the price stays above $100 though but in the low $100's so alternatives are still encouraged to bring about a better future. Let's also hope we have some more good years left. Good luck major airlines. One of you will be a casualty in my opinion. Let's hope your loss will precede better times for our industry and country.

Jet

 

[jonjuan]

Hi!

This is it. Peak Oil is here now. I think the fractionals are looking better and better.

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/stories/2007/02/20/0220bizoil.html

QUOTE]
Relentless economic pressures will send oil — now selling for just under $60 a barrel — steadily toward the stratosphere, Hamilton said. "If Saudi Arabia is in decline, then oil is way too cheap."

Saudi Arabia, the Elephant in the closet of oil production, is in decline. GM/Ford/Chrysler better pull out all the stops in getting fuel efficient vehicles and/or alternative fuel vehicles in showrooms NOW, or one or more of them is going Chapter 7.

cliff
LRD[/quote]

OOps, FLOPS just fired 200 people in part due to high fuel costs.

 

[regionalcap]

interesting article..no reason for these high prices

Oil rises despite falling demand


Oil prices moved higher Wednesday despite a stronger dollar and signs that U.S. demand for oil products is waning in light of a slumping economy and record prices.
Oil fell nearly $3 earlier in the day, but rebounded after Morgan Stanley's co-head of global economics, Richard Berner, said crude prices could easily reach $150 a barrel this year, and that high prices will not be enough to curb demand in developing countries.
"It seems that these big banks are driving oil prices, where instead it used to be the other way around," said Alaron Trading senior market analyst Phil Flynn.
As the U.S. economy has deteriorated in the past six months, many investors have engaged in speculative trading of commodities such as oil to serve as a hedge against a generally weakened dollar. Banks' predictions of rising prices only gives credence to oil traders that their investment will deliver a strong return.
Light, sweet crude oil for July delivery rose $2.18 to settle at $131.03 on the New York Mercantile Exchange. The contract fell $3.34 Tuesday, and was about $4 off its all-time high of $135.09 a barrel, which it hit last Thursday.
Slumping demand takes prices off highs
Traditionally, there is a run-up of crude oil future purchases just prior to Memorial Day as traders anticipate a strong start to the summer driving season. But since forecasts by motorist group AAA and Delloite and Touche both expected decreased travel this past holiday weekend, analysts said lower gasoline demand in the United States may finally be catching up to record oil prices.
"There is a very limited demand for fuel oil in the U.S.," said Stephen Schork, editor of energy industry newsletter The Schork Report. "Consumers are responding to high prices, which makes the rapid rise in crude oil of the last few weeks hard to sell."
Though actual numbers for Memorial Day travel will not be known for some time, evidence is pointing to fewer Americans driving due to high gas prices.
The national average price for retail gas rose 0.7 cent a gallon to $3.944 Wednesday, marking the 21st straight record, according to AAA.
The U.S. Department of Transportation said Monday that Americans drove 11 billion miles less in March 2008 than a year earlier, marking the first time that estimated March travel on public roads fell since 1979. That 4.3% decline is the sharpest year-on-year drop for any month in the history of the agency's reporting, which dates back to 1942.
According to the Energy Information Administration (EIA), a unit of the U.S. Department of Energy, gasoline demand has fallen 0.6% so far in 2008. The trend began in October 2007, and gas consumption has trailed year-ago levels in every month since, except for a very slight bump up in November. As a result, the EIA is forecasting the first year-over-year decline in U.S. gasoline demand since 1991.
"The forecast for a decline in gasoline demand is a function of prices and also lower economic growth," said EIA spokesman Jonathan Cogan.
MasterCard (MA) SpendingPulse, which reports on national retail gasoline sales based on aggregate sales activity in the company's payments network, paints an even bleaker picture for gasoline demand. The report shows the four-week average for U.S. gasoline demand down 6.3% year-over year for the week ending May 23, representing the 15th-straight week in which that measure has been in negative territory. The data couples the company's credit card sales with estimates for all other payment forms, including cash and check.
"Consumer behavior has changed dramatically this spring," said MasterCard SpendingPulse vice president Michael McNamara. "We haven't seen the spring increase that we normally do."
McNamara said one indicative trend can be found in Americans spending less on gas heading into weekends than going into the work week. He said that suggests people are cutting back on discretionary driving, while still fueling up for non-discretionary purposes.
Not just gas
Other oil-based products are also experiencing declining U.S. demand, such as jet fuel, heating oil, diesel and propane. The EIA expects demand for all finished petroleum products to fall in the United States in 2008.
Some Americans are replacing their oil product consumption with natural gas. Demand for natural gas is up in the United States, according to the EIA, and for those residents and companies that have the option, the alternative fuel source can be a cheaper option.
"Industries that can burn it are maxing out their natural gas production, since it is is cheap relative to the other commodities," said Schork. Schork noted that demand was so high this past winter, that suppliers are having trouble refilling reserves.
Foreign demand may catch up with U.S. soon
Although demand for oil products in foreign countries has steadily risen throughout 2008, that may soon change due to continually escalating prices.
Some analysts, such as Morgan Stanley's Berner, say high prices will not affect oil consumption abroad, since many foreign countries' governments subsidize oil prices for their residents. But other analysts think foreign demand will soon fall off as well.
"We're already seeing some developing countries lift their price curbs, and eventually other countries are gong to have to pass on these high prices," said Flynn. "People underestimate what kind of effect high prices are going to have there."


http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1595005#post1595005

 

[crxpilot]

Of course, the obvious response to this is that if every American converted to this tomorrow, the US electrical power grid would collapse.

Increased demand on the gird would mean more fuel for the electric plants, which in the US mostly means COAL, and additional carbon emissions.

Battery powered cars leave a HUGE amount of toxic waste when junked. If you create more toxic waste and burn coal at at plant 500 miles away to power your car you haven't solved anything, you've just dumped your mess on someone else.

Battery powered electric cars are a "feel good" non-solution, not an practical, multi-tiered integrated solution.

Solar panels alone or panels with wind turbines can recharge your car easily once installed thereby negagting all your excuses above (and batteries can be recycled).

NEXT.....

 

[jetflyer]

I think this is important for people to see that Gordon Brown appears to believe we're close to peak oil.

Do you think the British Prime Minister might have better information than you or I?

British PM warns of global oil 'shock'

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown warned Wednesday that the world faced an era-defining oil "shock" that required urgent action, as European leaders struggled to contain growing protests over soaring fuel prices.
"It is now understood that a global shock on this scale requires global solutions," Brown wrote in The Guardian newspaper.

Here is a quote from Brown's opinion piece in The Guardian:
British Prime Minister Gordon Brown wrote:

.The cause of rising prices is clear: growing demand and too little supply to meet it both now and - perhaps of even greater significance - in the future.

Gordon Brown doesn't believe it's the speculators running the price up!

One good thing about Brown talking like this: Alternatives are sure to get going.....
Let's hope!!

Jet

 

[crxpilot]

A Must Read From:
The Oil Drum-Europe:
Why oil costs over $120 per barrel
LINK: http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/4007#more

This is a great explanation of why oil prices have REALLY RISEN.

These geologists/experts leave no stone unturned in their analysis.

They talk about Energy Returned on Energy Invested, decline in current fields, new capacity additions, spare capacity, peak exports and the export land model, the falling dollar, and how subsidies in some countries distort the market.

Become informed,
Jet

Y2K, Peak Oil, 2012 its alll the same............

 

[Two Feathers]

Y2K, Peak Oil, 2012 its alll the same............

I guess your 2012 reference is regarding the Mayan Long Count Calender cycle changing? 20 years of troubled times followed by?

It is actually pretty interesting considering the widow for peak oil predictions.

Y2K......not so much.