Jet Blue E190 First Cities Announced

[Spectre]

Quote:
Originally Posted by furloughed dude
Might as well keep the fares at $25 since they are paying their pilots like a cheap street who###s...


Well said!





yup...they are low! you wanna hear the real irony? unless you want to find another job outside the industry...you might just be dressing up in a suit one day and interviewing to fly a 190 at those rates!

Now that is IRONY! LOL

Well, how often do you see JetBlue pilots comment on the pay decreases at NWA, DAL, AMR, UAL, etc. I'll make a small comparison. Post 9/11, we've seen no pay decreases and no furloughs at JetBlue.

I agree the E190 rate is low. But what should management do? Give industry leading pay and hope the E190 model works well? Or go conservative with lower rates and wait to see if the E190 numbers are good? I think you'll see pay increases in less than a year once the E190 is a proven money maker. Look at our history. Four years ago, Captains were making $80/hour in the A320. We had a 30% pay increase in OCT 2001 which brought that up to $118/hour.

Right now, I make $118/hour as a Captain on the A320. After 70 hours, that pay is time + 1/2 at $177/hour. Most Captains can earn between $10-15K/month depending on how much you prefer to fly. Since I fly a lot, I'm making about 165K this year and will time out the first week of December (1000 hours in 12 months FAA) for a well needed rest. Add to that PTO (personal time off) pay at 9 hours/month. These hours are banked, but may be used for time off, sick time, or 25% of the bank can be cashed out at the end of the year. That's another 108 hours of pay (an entire month's extra) you probably haven't considered.

Remember to compare apples to apples. For example, you can't compare our Captain's pay here with NWA's Captains on the A320. First of all, our most senior pilot has 5 years here. There are no 5 year NWA A320 Captains. So sure, a NWA Captain makes more than a JetBlue Captain. But, the NWA Captain probably has at least 12 years seniority there to be on a bus. When E190 training stabilizes in a year, FO's here can upgrade to CAPT on the E190 in less than one year. Sure, you'll say those Captain rates are low compared to a NWA DC-9 Captain. Again, how many 1 year Captains are there at NWA on the DC-9?

Our 3% 401K matching could be better, but at least we have something. You can also purchase stock (up to 10% of your pay) in a 6 month period at a 15% discount. Most people cash out this stock as soon as it's bought and take the easy 15% gain. Profit sharing which had been as high as 17% will decrease due to less profits this year. This money is automatically put into your 401K at the end of the year.

So there you have it. My 165K this year won't buy me a nice boat, car, plane or a vacation home...but it'll do for now. Sure's better than my NWA furlough pay of $0.00.

 

[IB6 UB9]

Why do you guys continue to get baited into the pay thing? Does it really matter if anyone knows what we make? Let people stay misinformed, and disgruntled...who cares?

 

[TonyC]

Post 9/11, we've seen no pay decreases and no furloughs at JetBlue.

Whew. Since that's the criteria, I'm still qualified to comment.





.

 

[IB6 UB9]

Here comes Tony C...any minute now.

 

[IB6 UB9]

Beat me by 30 seconds or so.

 

[Dizel8]

I have to agree with IB6 on this one,why bother? I was truly thinking after 800's post, considering no one took the bait, that the thread would die, however silly his comment, but such was not the case.

The jetblue pilots can talk untill we are blue in the face, no pun intended, but all it will do, is leave us out of breath. The issues we all face, will not be solved here, the issues we may have with the company is better solved internally.

People such as TonyC and the General are more than likely great guys, however, they are not privy to internal company issues or solutions, just like I know little about the issues facing FDX or DAL employees. Certainly, they are entitled to their opinion and to comment, we may even learn a few things along the way, but do not be goaded into silly arguments, which are merely meant to be flamebait.

 

[shadesofBS]

Why do we care what anyone thinks about anything? Why do a few chosen soldiers take it upon themselves to defend the honor of Jetblue?

 

[Dizel8]

Pride in the company we are employed by, is what I would imagine!

 

[shadesofBS]

...and yet we make a concious decision to ignore huge inequities within our own organization and we stride forward with the very same in-groups that drove us all to unionism at our last airlines.

 

[SpeedBird]

Isn't that the inherent nature of a seniority-based system?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Enjoy the ride Blue koolaid drinkers......

Everybody else will make less and Dave Bushy and gang will be knocking on the door for help when you guys turn red ink while the fuek is high....

How's the debt servicing on all of those planes you are getting by the way??

Just checking....those JFK-BOS 25 dollar fares oughta suck up the slack........but then again, you have TV in all of the seats so everybody should look the other way

 

[aspire]

Just my 02. cents...

it's very doubtful that the new JFK-BOS will have any effect on DL or U's shuttle service. The Who's Who of Wall St. and Madison Ave. that depend on the Shuttle don't buy tickets based on price.

But I'm sure the other new services will do quite well though.
-aspire

 

[HawkerF/O]

I hate to pull the whole business traveler card crap, but with US and DAL's FF programs and the fact that most business traveler's tickets are picked up by their companies, along with LGA and EWR are still more convenient to the City than JFK, most business travelers will stick to the other carriers rather than JB. That being said, JB WILL pull some travelers (leisure) from the other carriers, and that itself will not be good (for DAL and US).

I disagree totally. It's about $ these days, not what works best. Travel budgets have been slashed throughout the business world because of the economy. To think that JB is only going to get a few xtra leisure travelers is nuts. How many analysts, pilots, know-it-alls said the same thing about SWA when they started using some of the airports they go to. Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on me. Don't kid yourself, this is going to hurt the other airlines. I will say that the other airlines will get retention because of their FF programs, but with JB expanding, any rentention realized will be gone with-in a year or 6 months of another major expansion.

 

[shadesofBS]

Isn't that the inherent nature of a seniority-based system?

So, seniority means huge inequity and in-groups?

Not at the democratically elected group I came from. If you you were cheating, you got crusified.

So, what I think you're saying is that, in a seniority system, those in the in-group can impose whatever pay and scheduling system they like.

For instance: you could pay straight pay to 65 hours, time and a half over 75, and double time over 85 - block time or credit time, it doesn't matter.

This would STILL be a seniority system. The difference would be how the rules were decided. It's all where you draw the line and whether or not the line is considered fair by a majority.

Seniority is fine...when you have a system that EVERYONE is fine with.

 

[HawkerF/O]

Just my 02. cents...

it's very doubtful that the new JFK-BOS will have any effect on DL or U's shuttle service. The Who's Who of Wall St. and Madison Ave. that depend on the Shuttle don't buy tickets based on price.

But I'm sure the other new services will do quite well though.
-aspire

The Who's Who don't buy tickets at all! They have their own planes and Frac shares.

 

[Patriot328]

I will say that the other airlines will get retention because of their FF programs, but with JB expanding, any rentention realized will be gone with-in a year or 6 months of another major expansion.

So you are saying business people are going to dump their legacy carriers and frequent flyer programs and give up free tickets to nearly any place on the planet so they can travel cheap on jetblue?


Until jb goes through several expansions to more interesting places, the answer to that question is some yes, most no.

 

[Dizel8]

ShadesofBS,

Just curious, where did you come from and did that place have a seniority system? Secondly, as to ingroups, every airline has them,unfortunately, but they are not necessarily related to seniority.

As for a seniority system everyone is fine with, not sure that exist. The junior guy is always going to feel ire, having to work weekends and the graveyard shift, while the senior guy enjoys a better QOL, however, junior guys get to be senior and I suppose that is the whole point of a seniority system.

 

[Dizel8]

Enjoy the ride Blue koolaid drinkers......

Everybody else will make less and Dave Bushy and gang will be knocking on the door for help when you guys turn red ink while the fuek is high....

How's the debt servicing on all of those planes you are getting by the way??

Just checking....those JFK-BOS 25 dollar fares oughta suck up the slack........but then again, you have TV in all of the seats so everybody should look the other way

Was there a coherent point I missed in that tirade?

 

[8vATE]

Well said!

YEA Douche!


But JetBlue pays more than a 14 year US Airways Pilot.

 

[KC-10 Driver]

So, seniority means huge inequity and in-groups?

Not at the democratically elected group I came from. If you you were cheating, you got crusified.

So, what I think you're saying is that, in a seniority system, those in the in-group can impose whatever pay and scheduling system they like.

For instance: you could pay straight pay to 65 hours, time and a half over 75, and double time over 85 - block time or credit time, it doesn't matter.

This would STILL be a seniority system. The difference would be how the rules were decided. It's all where you draw the line and whether or not the line is considered fair by a majority.

Seniority is fine...when you have a system that EVERYONE is fine with.

What?