Jerry Atkin in ASA ATL crew lounge....

[Blucher]

Management, perhaps?

Hey Francis, lighten up! (That means YOU crjskipper).
You do realize that was management's proposal, right? You do understand that only the sentences that have the term "matched" after them are potentially TA'd, right? That means if there's a title to a section that says "matched" they've only agreed on a title, not the entire section. Like deciding what 'sexual relations' means BEFORE Monica gets in the room. I'm fairly certain you're actually a management lacky, but just to be on the safe side please read my next sentence very carefully.
THINK before you Type/Speak.

-Blucher

 

[crjskipper]

Blucher - I expected either management or cool aid drinker. Well done. Matched means they agree to the language as written - although the section is not TA'd. As far as I can tell about 90% of 13 is matched. Not sure what part of that I didn't understand. I am a line holder (management?) and I dont like the majority of movement in 13 being to protect reserve pilots. Having spent less than a year on reserve, and almost a decade holding a line I dont think we should shoot our wad on long call reserve and a commute clause that increase the likelyhood of me getting drafted. Read the next line very carefully - then consult your MEC for your opinion.

Think for yourself before you write.

 

[Plug]

Jerry is also having another private meeting with our MEC today. Jerry called it not the other way around.

As far as the "toillet paper" management put out this week it has Bill Hiers written all over it. He'll draft whatever language you want but add that one "poison pill" paragraph, sentence, or word at the end of it which totally negates the language. We have several things like this in our current book like our future open time language. Management hopes that people just read the first few sentences and move on to the next sub-section. The current company proposal is laced with this crap and that is the stumbling point in negotiations.

 

[Crash Pad]

I can't believe we are going for a commuter clause... Honestly people you will give up a huge bargaining chip just for the piece of mind that you can miss a trip. How about this... Get a crashpad, check the flights, if you can't make it the day of your trip come in a day early.... Does that sound like it sucks to much... Then I have another idea and this is radical. Live in your base. Don't like Atlanta hey I don't either but you choose your sacrifices. Here is another crazy idea if you don't like Atlanta... Southwest, Jetblue, FedEx, Continental, NetJets, Skywest... All hiring and none of them located in Atlanta. Fire up that resume and make a real run at moving your career forward. Any idiot can walk in a circle holding a sign it takes someone with balls to get away from the warm blanket that is ASA and try to advance there careers.
Easy on reserves... If reserve is so great I'm sure you can hold it... why don't you bid it. Keep in mind that when the ATR's go and if all the new aircraft go to Skywest you might be on reserve again someday.

 

[Comin-In-Hot]

Our MEC has spent 2/3 of the 35 page section 13 to protect reserve pilots from ever having to work. Guess what - line holders get screwed. Protect the friggin line holders - not the reserves. Oh - blame management for section 13 being alomost 40 pages.

As a reserve holder, I can understand what you are getting at. I have flown 36 hours so far this year (7 in January alone). On top of that I am 4.5 months out of IOE, so this little bit of flying I am getting is not helping my comfort level in the plane.

Scheduling does what they want with reserve pilots. There is no rhyme or reason to it. 2 of my friends senior to me bid nap reserve for March, and I got it. I only bid 5 AM and 6 AM. I figure early callout will get me in the plane more. NOT. Do they even look at at our reserve request forms?

The short call/ready reserve proposal from mgmt. is crapola. 90 min. callout (15 min. response time included!), then up to 9 hours of channel surfing in the crew dungeon, followed by a possible 2 hour delay before block out! Are you kidding me! They can stick that proposal where the sun don't shine.

I think most of the language in 13 about reserve pilots is to screw them even more than before. On top of that, the language is so legalese that scheduling cannot even begin to interpret it, so they will be inclined to give up and call/extend line holders instead. Simplify the reserve rules, and the line holders might be happier. Until then file grievances, and bitch on this board.:beer:

 

[rjcap]

Blucher - I expected either management or cool aid drinker. Well done. Matched means they agree to the language as written - although the section is not TA'd. As far as I can tell about 90% of 13 is matched. Not sure what part of that I didn't understand. I am a line holder (management?) and I dont like the majority of movement in 13 being to protect reserve pilots. Having spent less than a year on reserve, and almost a decade holding a line I dont think we should shoot our wad on long call reserve and a commute clause that increase the likelyhood of me getting drafted. Read the next line very carefully - then consult your MEC for your opinion.

Think for yourself before you write.

I'll skip the koolaid/ mgmt insults and get to the point.

Reserve should be a senior bid line. It supposed to provide some flexibility to those who bid it. In its current form it is pure brain damage.

You think this doesn't apply to your 10+ year self absorbed seniority status. What happens if your trip is cnx or reassigned ? Are you not placed on reserve and then are bound by the currently criminal reserve rules ??

Think about that and try not to strain your brain to much.

 

[viper01]

If we get a commuter clause, those that already live in ATL, will now have piece of mind that if they choose can live anywhere.

 

[Blucher]

Deary, deary, deary...look what the cat dragged in.

Blucher - I expected either management or cool aid drinker. Well done. Matched means they agree to the language as written - although the section is not TA'd. As far as I can tell about 90% of 13 is matched. Not sure what part of that I didn't understand. I am a line holder (management?) and I dont like the majority of movement in 13 being to protect reserve pilots. Having spent less than a year on reserve, and almost a decade holding a line I dont think we should shoot our wad on long call reserve and a commute clause that increase the likelyhood of me getting drafted. Read the next line very carefully - then consult your MEC for your opinion.

Think for yourself before you write.

Crjskipper,

Apparently what we have here is a failure to communicate. If reserve is written all nice a pretty like, it will be taken by the senior guys. Now, let's think about why this is good. Let's assume I'm here a decade or so down the line. I'm guessing I won't be chompin' at the bit to do yet another VLD turn. I'm guessing I'll be perfectly happy to be at home with the family, out fishing, etc...with no concerns at all other than perhaps scheduling will call me to assign me a trip in 12 hours (this is what a long-call is). Now, as a senior guy who's on long-call reserve I've freed up a high-block line for a more junior guy. Say, for example, someone who's trying to a) get max hours to make a living wage or perhaps b) build some time to beef up the resume to get out of here some day. If, by some strange mental defect, I am really excited about being able to fly to VLD again, with my seniority (after another decade) I can bid for and hold it. As far as I'm concerned this is win-win.
As for your point about the 'matched' sections being merely matched language and not "potentially TA'd," as I wrote before, I have a hard time seeing a difference. Perhaps a refresher in what the term "potentially" means would help. Again, this is why I suspect you're management. Not just because you fail to grasp simple terms, but because your statements sound eerily similar to when the company said they needed to re-evalute everything again now that we're not in IBB/owned by DAL/negotiators had a tummy ache/etc... (including all sections already TA'd).

-Blucheruke:

 

[atrdriver]

Matched means they agree to the language as written - although the section is not TA'd.

No, wrong again. Matched Language means that have agreed upon provisions within a section. That does not mean that they agree to the language as written, it means that they agree to the provisions, not how it is written. That is where the TA'd part comes in, that is the actual contract language. Maybe it is you who should think/investigate before you write.

 

[PCL_128]

I have tomorrow off, but I won't be in the crew room. I have better things to do. My MEC has already talked to him and gave him our concerns.

Everyone should follow this man's example. Your MEC should be your sole spokesman. Don't let management cripple your MEC's effectiveness by dividing you. Once they get you in a room and start "communicating" then things can go downhill fast. They want you there so they can determine where your weak points are, so they can see how united you are with each other and your MEC, and so they can sow seeds of discontent within the ranks. The best message you can send is not showing up to these dog and pony shows. If management sees that you don't care one bit about listening to them or talking to them then they'll begin to realize that they're actually going to have to deal with your MEC.