JB to the Valley of the Sun

[Heywood Jiblome]

Just announced we'll start service to Sky Harbor beginning in October. I was tired of posting about the -190 rates, so I figured I bring along this bit of news instead......should make our Phoenix commuters a little happier!!

 

[lowecur]

Nice reply to AWA, and their recent transcon moves. Has to have them nervous, as they are not making money. As was seen with WN in PHL, you don't need alot of frequency to throw yields off at a hub. Just a few flights can cause exponential damage at a rivals hub. I don't expect frequency or other destinations until the 190's arrive in the summer 2005.

I guess Mesa, AZ can only sit and watch for now.

 

[CACTUS A-320]

Lowecur,

(1) The transcon city pairs we serve are not what JBlue flies. We went into the legacy airlines airports (LAX, SFO, IAD, JFK, BOS) because they had the highest fares. No direct competition in those markets with JBlue.
(2) We are not making money? Really? We were profitable for the year 2003 and have been so for four consecutive quarters- one of a small group of airlines to claim that. The 2nd qtr has been "too close to call" due to fuel prices, and we are not alone with that.
(3) JBlue is coming into PHX with ONE flight (red-eye) a day. We have been here over 20 years and our costs and fares are low. Even if they were extremely successful and added flights here, it would not have a big effect on the already-low-fare LCC dominated PHX.
As you can tell, I sure am "nervous," as you claim.

 

[zonker]

Lowecur,

(1) The transcon city pairs we serve are not what JBlue flies. We went into the legacy airlines airports (LAX, SFO, IAD, JFK, BOS) because they had the highest fares. No direct competition in those markets with JBlue.
(2) We are not making money? Really? We were profitable for the year 2003 and have been so for four consecutive quarters- one of a small group of airlines to claim that. The 2nd qtr has been "too close to call" due to fuel prices, and we are not alone with that.
(3) JBlue is coming into PHX with ONE flight (red-eye) a day. We have been here over 20 years and our costs and fares are low. Even if they were extremely successful and added flights here, it would not have a big effect on the already-low-fare LCC dominated PHX.
As you can tell, I sure am "nervous," as you claim.

Don't listen to that retard. His avatar is a personal photo.

 

[F9 Driver]

B6 did the same in DEN with no adverse effects.

They have a fairly good niche carved out with these JFK, BOS, or LGB red eyes from DEN. (I'm not sure they go to LGB from DEN.)

The major diference here in DEN is there is no gate space available for their expansion, and the pax fees are sky high.

This aint a true zero sum game, but its close!

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Lowecur,

(1) The transcon city pairs we serve are not what JBlue flies. We went into the legacy airlines airports (LAX, SFO, IAD, JFK, BOS) because they had the highest fares. No direct competition in those markets with JBlue.
(2) We are not making money? Really? We were profitable for the year 2003 and have been so for four consecutive quarters- one of a small group of airlines to claim that. The 2nd qtr has been "too close to call" due to fuel prices, and we are not alone with that.
(3) JBlue is coming into PHX with ONE flight (red-eye) a day. We have been here over 20 years and our costs and fares are low. Even if they were extremely successful and added flights here, it would not have a big effect on the already-low-fare LCC dominated PHX.
As you can tell, I sure am "nervous," as you claim.

Just one more thing to add to this and that is if the company would just advertise I think that we would see even more return. I often get comments from people who have never heard of us or know where we fly!!!!

WD.

 

[lowecur]

Lowecur,

(1) The transcon city pairs we serve are not what JBlue flies. We went into the legacy airlines airports (LAX, SFO, IAD, JFK, BOS) because they had the highest fares. No direct competition in those markets with JBlue. Why get into semantics, huh? The LGB and OAK airports are an option that obviously many travelers have sought out just to travel on B6.
(2) We are not making money? Really? We were profitable for the year 2003 and have been so for four consecutive quarters- one of a small group of airlines to claim that. The 2nd qtr has been "too close to call" due to fuel prices, and we are not alone with that. I know, misery loves company.
(3) JBlue is coming into PHX with ONE flight (red-eye) a day. We have been here over 20 years and our costs and fares are low. Even if they were extremely successful and added flights here, it would not have a big effect on the already-low-fare LCC dominated PHX. It's what they call a toe-hold. When you are on-site, it makes it much easier to get an extra gate if ever needed.
As you can tell, I sure am "nervous," as you claim. You should be nervous. Start connecting some of the dots for future 190 networks. Phoenix, San Jose, Sacramento, Las Vegas, Denver, Salt Lake City, San Diego, Seattle, New Orleans. Add to those already served cities, the likes of Dallas, Austin, Tucson, Cancun, Mexico City, San Jose, Houston, Reno, and you have a very formidable network.

 

[Resume Writer]

Just one more thing to add to this and that is if the company would just advertise I think that we would see even more return. I often get comments from people who have never heard of us or know where we fly!!!!

WD.

That has been going on for almost 21 years, Wiskey! I have said that for years and no one seems to get it.

Kathy

 

[8vATE]

Phoenix is a HOT, HOT market....

Even with SWA and the AWA presence.... There is probably plenty of business to spread around for everyone...

I believe part of the decison making process was also looking at a good market to balance out aircraft/crew utilization.... And down the road there may be more frequencies...some connecting the dots...

For those of you at Cactus... having ridden on you guys a few times lately... you guys have a great product and I believe some really good leadership..
People DO want first class..... And the sandwiches I bought from you guys were good! Crews were very friendly and the aircraft clean and on time...

Neeleman has always voiced a concern about directly competing with SWA and other LCCs.... His "go make more money" in a different markets mantra...
I am a little suprised by his jumping in to PHX so early....even if we don't "directly" compete with SWA..... its definitely a very competitive market...

But... Having been visiting family out there now for four years... The growth of the city is unbelievable.....

just my .02...

 

[BoilerUP]

You should be nervous. Start connecting some of the dots for future 190 networks. Phoenix, San Jose, Sacramento, Las Vegas, Denver, Salt Lake City, San Diego, Seattle, New Orleans. Add to those already served cities, the likes of Dallas, Austin, Tucson, Cancun, Mexico City, San Jose, Houston, Reno, and you have a very formidable network.

Jetblue is the new 800-lb gorilla with their EMB-190s! The blue-aid drinkers and their chaulpa jets will go into your mother's hub and pillage all your passengers away! Better offer to fly those 100 seaters for sub-Mesa pay now otherwise Jetblue will put you all out of business!

JETBLUE AND THE EMB-190 WILL RULE ZE WORLD!

Lowecur, do you REALLY think B6 would put a mini-hub at the headquarters of another LCC that they don't really compete with and has been around thrice as long as them? Just because they get a new type? I know you are the Brazillian's biggest cheerleaders and all but gimme a break...

 

[TWA Dude]

Didn't jetBlue pull out of ATL after a bit of an experiment? PHX could be the same. Besides, they really want to fly out of Williams Gateway airport.

 

[lowecur]

[
Lowecur, do you REALLY think B6 would put a mini-hub at the headquarters of another LCC that they don't really compete with and has been around thrice as long as them? Just because they get a new type? I know you are the Brazillian's biggest cheerleaders and all but gimme a break. Well Jetblue is not going to spill their exact plans just yet, but they definitely plan on connecting those dots. How and where they will focus will be played out as attrition takes it's toll in the next 5 years. They certainly are not going to put WN out of business, but they can and will put a hurt'n on the yields out of Phoenix with only a few gates and the 190s. How AWA adjusts will determine whether they're around in another 5 years. Look what WN did to yields in PHL with just a few gates. The "affect" is exponential once the network is all up and running.

 

[BoilerUP]

You compare what Southwest has done in PHL with what you THINK Jetblue will do with America West out of PHX. You are comparing apples to oranges on an extreme scale. America West has been around what, 20 years or more? JBU isn't going to be their end.

How many LCCs compete over the same exact city pairs? Not very many - and that is one of the strengths of the LCCs. When LCCs start undercutting each other along the same routes, we'll watch 1. pilot salaries fall to historic depths (witness current history), and 2. red ink spill everywhere. Not necessarily in that order.

 

[Av8rPHX]

I am curious as to where all of these supposed gates that B6 is "supposedly" going to have are going to appear from.

 

[lowecur]

You compare what Southwest has done in PHL with what you THINK Jetblue will do with America West out of PHX. It certainly is possible as the network continues to grow. Once they start plugging in the 190's and adding some frequency, you will see yields fall to where the 190's are making money and WN and AWA are not. You are comparing apples to oranges on an extreme scale. America West has been around what, 20 years or more? JBU isn't going to be their end. I never said that. I am only suggesting they had better keep their eyes open. And yes, AWA will need to adjust in the coming years to survive.

How many LCCs compete over the same exact city pairs? Not very many - and that is one of the strengths of the LCCs. I think WN and AWA compete head to head quite a bit, no? It's all about securing the infrastructure and making money for B6, and they will continue to probe and see where there is weakness.

 

[xanderman]

Yeah Sure!

B6 in PHX cannot be compared to WN in PHL. First off PHL was dominated by a large airline charging huge prices due to their dominance in those markets. WN and AWA compete in PHX driving prices to the low end already therefore I do not believe B6 will risk more than 1 or 2 flights a day. LCC's go after markets where they can gather up market share when the public is being overcharged. PHX is not one of those markets...
Just my .02
Andy

 

[lowecur]

I am curious as to where all of these supposed gates that B6 is "supposedly" going to have are going to appear from.

Jetblue will be very patient. Obviously, they have a gate or will share a gate with their redeye flight. As the attrition occurs in the next three years, B6 will be more than happy to pick up a gate at a time. There wasn't a heck of a lot of space at PHL, but WN only needs 3 or 4 gates to make a major dent in yields. Stay tuned.

 

[lowecur]

B6 in PHX cannot be compared to WN in PHL. First off PHL was dominated by a large airline charging huge prices due to their dominance in those markets. You just don't understand what this rate structure on the 190 has just done. If you don't believe B6 can undercut yields at PHX with the 190, you're in for a rude awaking. WN and AWA compete in PHX driving prices to the low end already therefore I do not believe B6 will risk more than 1 or 2 flights a day. I agree for now, but watch what happens by 2007. LCC's go after markets where they can gather up market share when the public is being overcharged. PHX is not one of those markets...stay tuned.
Just my .02
Andy

 

[xanderman]

okay...

I do understand! Every company is trying to position itself to be more competitive. But I believe your confidence is premature. So, yes, I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Andy

 

[Bake]

Lowecur, How many of your predictions have come true? What time this summer was WN's stock supposed to be single digits due to our overwhelming costs? You failed miserably on WN's 1st quarter earnings. Please tell me what you have got right so some of us might actually believe what you're typing. As I see it, you need to wipe the end of your fingers with toilet paper because everything you type is sh#t!!


respectfully, Bake