JB/Frontier Merger?

[Splinter]

Rumors...again. Any chance this actually happens? Save for the fact that it makes a LOT of sense. Comments...

 

[roadrunnerblue]

Looking at the 2 route networks and their fleets it would make total sense and a chance for survival for both lcc's. Both are on the ropes although you will never hear it from their employees or managers (especially jetblue's). You will hear that the 2 cultures do not blend well and that the aircraft are equipped with different type engines etc. etc. Fact is that ego's will get in the way of doing this merger. Bottom line : employees will lose (again)!

 

[Lake Alice]

Both are on the ropes although you will never hear it from their employees or managers (especially jetblue's).

Ignorant dumba$$

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Eastern Pan Am more likely

 

[Andy]

Save for the fact that it makes a LOT of sense.

Make a lot of sense? Mergers don't make sense; not financially (airline mergers are not synergistic, nor are they accretive) and certainly not for the employees of the airlines. The only ones that benefit from airline mergers are the Wall Street money crowd.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Looking at the 2 route networks and their fleets it would make total sense and a chance for survival for both lcc's. Both are on the ropes although you will never hear it from their employees or managers (especially jetblue's). You will hear that the 2 cultures do not blend well and that the aircraft are equipped with different type engines etc. etc. Fact is that ego's will get in the way of doing this merger. Bottom line : employees will lose (again)!

Uh..are you a JB employee?

 

[bvt1151]

It would give JetBlue that Western Hub they've been looking for, and Frontier would get out of the land-locked situation they're in at DEN. Most employees don't like to admit it, but yes, both jetBlue and Frontier are in danger over the next 5-10 years. A merger would at least extend it.

 

[Acefaser]

Lets make this thread a sticky. That way we dont have to go through this every week.

 

[rjcap]

As a full fare paying passenger these days Frontier is my #1 go to airline.

Great fares

Great service

D--n fine product.

If they merged with JB it would be an even better airline.

 

[curtaindriver]

It would give JetBlue that Western Hub they've been looking for, and Frontier would get out of the land-locked situation they're in at DEN. Most employees don't like to admit it, but yes, both jetBlue and Frontier are in danger over the next 5-10 years. A merger would at least extend it.

I love these posts, please enlighten us with your knowledge of our impending doom in 5-10 years. As far as employees admitting things, we know there are some major obstacles to overcome in the near future. But, luckily those other airlines like NWA, Delta, UAL, and USAirways don't have to worry about those issues.........they are definetely in the clear for the next 5-10 years.

CD

 

[voteno]

Ignorant dumba$$

Don't like the truth, huh?

 

[jetalc]

...Most employees don't like to admit it, but yes, both jetBlue and Frontier are in danger over the next 5-10 years. A merger would at least extend it.

This post gets the idiot of the day award. How, exactly, do you figure? Is there something that only you know? JetBlue is a fine company, with an excellent niche and motivated employees, as is Frontier. I have no problem facing reality, but your statement is nothing short of ignorant.

 

[bvt1151]

Wow! You guys are quick to jump on someone who isn't as blindly optimistic as you, and slow to do any research of your own. If you don't understand something, don't call the poster an idiot, just ask.

Frontier Airlines is the only airline on Holly Hegemen's "Titanic Watch." Its a great airline, yet whether or not you agree with her, the point remains, there is a lot of pessimissim in this industry about Frontier. They can't seem to make it out of Denver, and now that Southwest is there, their business plan of being the only provider of low-cost United-alternative service out of Denver is shot. They now have to compete. LAX was a disaster/joke. They couldn't muscle their way into that market years ago, and they're not going to be able to do it on the LAX-SFO route this year. They need a way out of Denver, and the low-yield "Flip to Mexico" routes aren't going to do it.

jetBlue is starting to feel the effects of aging. JFK is no longer the underutilized airport it used to be, and jetBlue's operational performance is paying for that. The luster of being the "cool" airline to the passengers is wearing off as other airlines add entertainment systems. Employee seniority (wages) are going up, and more aircraft are being delivered in bulk to try to keep costs down (both aircraft and labor). I feel for the revenue management department.

Basically jetBlue needs a way out of JFK, and Frontier needs a way out of Denver.


Yes, these are my opinions, but they're the opinions of quite a few analysts as well. I love Frontier as a company, but that doesn't change reality.

 

[Bill Nelson]

This post gets the idiot of the day award. How, exactly, do you figure? Is there something that only you know?

Perhaps he is refering to the fact that SWA will own DEN in the next few years thus severely hurting Frontier and JB's will probably implode on its own do to rising costs and poor management decisions.

 

[Fins Up]

When I was a naive newcomer to flightinfo, I thought the folks posting opinions and outlooks on various companies might know what they were talking about.

Now it's just amusing to read. I think I could get more insight on the industry watching pro wrestling.

 

[starchkr]

I like the post about SWA owning DEN...kinda funny. Since they started here we have seen an increase in business (sure say it...go ahead) but the fact remains that we still are beating them in every market they are serving. DOT numbers show we have 4% over them in pax numbers going to LAS, 16.6% over them in SLC, and then the biggest ones, 5.3% in PHX, 15.6% in MDW and 19.4% in BWI(all over by the way)...all SWA hubs...go figure.

As far as a merger...eh, we will have to see, i would rather not, but i don't make those decisions. Whatever keeps me in a job for the longest will be the best thing...I don't want to have to put the "f" word next to my current position in my profile. I feel though that we will do just fine on our own, and i don't listen to the skeptics...doing so will only haunt you, and make you worry...I am an optimist...apparently unlike many on this board.

bvt...I could be wrong, but the Mexico routes are raking in the dough...they are high profit markets. Also, the new LAX-SFO routes were brought about as something other than a PAX alone route. The pax are a bonus (plus the loads are picking up quite a bit from the start), the freight is what is paying for the route.

 

[roadrunnerblue]

Ignorant dumba$$

Koolaid drinkers are far more ignorant and A$$enine than realists that have been around the block a few times.

Keep on drinking!

 

[elag777]

Rumors...again. Any chance this actually happens? Save for the fact that it makes a LOT of sense. Comments...

Reason that Delta said no to Doug is that there is a better offer from David!

 

[roadrunnerblue]

Make a lot of sense? Mergers don't make sense; not financially (airline mergers are not synergistic, nor are they accretive) and certainly not for the employees of the airlines. The only ones that benefit from airline mergers are the Wall Street money crowd.

Good analysis! Welcome to corporate America!
Corporate America rules not employee wishes.
Airlines are not synergetic? Look at the AWA USair merger!

 

[elag777]

Koolaid drinkers are far more ignorant and A$$enine than realists that have been around the block a few times.

Keep on drinking!

Mr Blue koolaid drinkers to you eh!:beer:

 

[bvt1151]

I like the post about SWA owning DEN...kinda funny. Since they started here we have seen an increase in business (sure say it...go ahead) but the fact remains that we still are beating them in every market they are serving. DOT numbers show we have 4% over them in pax numbers going to LAS, 16.6% over them in SLC, and then the biggest ones, 5.3% in PHX, 15.6% in MDW and 19.4% in BWI(all over by the way)...all SWA hubs...go figure.

This is known as the "Southwest Effect." It basically illustrates that when Southwest enters a market, the number of passengers explodes. However, yield suffers from it.

bvt...I could be wrong, but the Mexico routes are raking in the dough...they are high profit markets. Also, the new LAX-SFO routes were brought about as something other than a PAX alone route. The pax are a bonus (plus the loads are picking up quite a bit from the start), the freight is what is paying for the route.

The freight on the LAX-SFO route is great, and its something that wouldn't show up in the DOT numbers. I hope that is the case, however the route drawn strong criticism in the analyst world. As far as the Mexico routes, Mexico is very traditionally a vacation destination which means lower yields. The long flights also prevent that aircraft from generating any other revenues while on those flights. Typically this type of flying has a small margin, but if Frontier has found a way to increase that margin, its a good thing.

Personally, Frontier is my favorite US airline. Its the one I'd choose to work at, if I had the choice, but that still doesn't change their situation.

 

[roadrunnerblue]

I love these posts, please enlighten us with your knowledge of our impending doom in 5-10 years. As far as employees admitting things, we know there are some major obstacles to overcome in the near future. But, luckily those other airlines like NWA, Delta, UAL, and USAirways don't have to worry about those issues.........they are definetely in the clear for the next 5-10 years.

CD

Those other airlines have too much critical mass and political clout to go under. Too many vendors are owed and too many employees would be on unemployment and no longer contributing to the state's coffers. Too many lucrative routes (international). I would be very surprised not to see a merger of those other airlines.
The demise of small fry like B6 and Frontier would be insignificant. And yes they are fighting for survival, whether you like it or not. So it is in their interest to merge.

 

[roadrunnerblue]

This post gets the idiot of the day award. How, exactly, do you figure? Is there something that only you know? JetBlue is a fine company, with an excellent niche and motivated employees, as is Frontier. I have no problem facing reality, but your statement is nothing short of ignorant.

Another koolaid drinker!

 

[roadrunnerblue]

Wow! You guys are quick to jump on someone who isn't as blindly optimistic as you, and slow to do any research of your own. If you don't understand something, don't call the poster an idiot, just ask.

Frontier Airlines is the only airline on Holly Hegemen's "Titanic Watch." Its a great airline, yet whether or not you agree with her, the point remains, there is a lot of pessimissim in this industry about Frontier. They can't seem to make it out of Denver, and now that Southwest is there, their business plan of being the only provider of low-cost United-alternative service out of Denver is shot. They now have to compete. LAX was a disaster/joke. They couldn't muscle their way into that market years ago, and they're not going to be able to do it on the LAX-SFO route this year. They need a way out of Denver, and the low-yield "Flip to Mexico" routes aren't going to do it.

jetBlue is starting to feel the effects of aging. JFK is no longer the underutilized airport it used to be, and jetBlue's operational performance is paying for that. The luster of being the "cool" airline to the passengers is wearing off as other airlines add entertainment systems. Employee seniority (wages) are going up, and more aircraft are being delivered in bulk to try to keep costs down (both aircraft and labor). I feel for the revenue management department.

Basically jetBlue needs a way out of JFK, and Frontier needs a way out of Denver.


Yes, these are my opinions, but they're the opinions of quite a few analysts as well. I love Frontier as a company, but that doesn't change reality.

BVT,

You are low on flight time but high on insight and understanding.
Good luck to you in your career!

 

[roadrunnerblue]

This post gets the idiot of the day award. How, exactly, do you figure? Is there something that only you know?

Perhaps he is refering to the fact that SWA will own DEN in the next few years thus severely hurting Frontier and JB's will probably implode on its own do to rising costs and poor management decisions.

Exactly right Billy!

 

[Fins Up]

Another koolaid drinker!

Call me a koolaid drinker too. I feel left out.

 

[roadrunnerblue]

When I was a naive newcomer to flightinfo, I thought the folks posting opinions and outlooks on various companies might know what they were talking about.

Now it's just amusing to read. I think I could get more insight on the industry watching pro wrestling.

Looks like this is your first airline job, judging from the aircraft you have flown. Welcome aboard this once great industry!
Pocket sessions will not give you true insight. Documented airline history will.
And don't forget to read the newspapers.

 

[IB6 UB9]

Looks like this is your first airline job, judging from the aircraft you have flown. Welcome aboard this once great industry!
Pocket sessions will not give you true insight. Documented airline history will.
And don't forget to read the newspapers.

You are starting to remind me of someone.

 

[Fins Up]

Looks like this is your first airline job, judging from the aircraft you have flown. Welcome aboard this once great industry!
Pocket sessions will not give you true insight. Documented airline history will.
And don't forget to read the newspapers.

yada yada yada. It'll probably take a while, a long while, before I become as jaded as you and some of the others. Thanks for pointing out that I need to contemplate my company's impending doom every day.

Who do you work for anyway? Your profile doesn't really show anything useful.

 

[elag777]

And don't forget to read the newspapers.

Especially the USA today!