"Janet Airlines"

[Immelman]

You got it avbug, I knowingly pollute with the burning of 100LL. I knowingly use electricity... you are right. I knowingly ride my made-from-the-industrial-revolution road bike around to save the gas as best as I can, hoping that by some miracle we'll come up with a regulatory system that forces car gas to $10 a gallon for to encuorage alternate ground transportation, saving a petrolium reserve for transportation options that require the portable energy that petrolium delivers (aircraft being one of them). I am also sorry for coming off like an angry hippie love child.

My point was to say that technology, aerospace & otherwise, is great, but we have to be responsible as best we can about it.. when rocket fuel shows up in the drinking water in dangerous quantities, nation-wide, that is an indication that we are not doing our job.

PS: I hope you enjoy using your internet connection, personal computer, cellular-radio-telephone, and global positioning system.... all of which have more than substantial contributions from Kah-lifornia.

 

[MJG]

Uhhh....thread drift.......

So back to AREA 51 please.....

 

[TrafficInSight]

Chances are that without the technological developments that took place in the Nevada desert, you wouldn't have a country, either. While you're sitting in your Kalifornia home, smug and oh-so-righteously sipping your purified yuppie water, the world has been at war against you, and the technology that was developed in that desert has been providing you the freedom to be so pious and proper.

Sorry but the technological advances you're talking about happened in the deserts of California... they were just tested in the deserts of Nevada. I have to drink my "purified yuppie water" because I can no longer drink the ground water, it's got a healthy layer of solvents and gasoline on top, so they get it from other places and put all kinds of chlorine in it that makes it taste horrible. I really don't think that good tasting water without chlorine in it is such a crime so I buy bottled water that's filtered and when I have a home of my own a reverse osmosis filter is high on my list.

I say alleged because there is no proof and there have never been any investigations since the government is answerable to no one. As I said before, if a mildly secret installation like Edwards saw fit to bury toxic waste in the desert and nearly every other military installation in the country has had some kind of cleanup operation at some point do you really think a highly secret installation would have it all trucked out and properly disposed of?

No, because at the time they didn't know it was bad, and with the military even after they knew it was bad they still didn't care.

 

[CorpLearDriver]

Groom Lake? Why you must be mistaken. There's no such place as Groom Lake.

Crossing over Beatty VOR at FL350 on my way from PHX to RNO at 4 AM, I use to point out the lights of the base about 50 miles off the right wing and ask passengers (when we had one) if they saw it. Most of course said yeah. Then I'd say, "no you don't. That place doesn't exist."

They do a lot of testing of their stuff at night too. Don't ask me how I know that...

 

[staledog]

Uhhh....thread drift.......

So back to AREA 51 please.....

you beat me to it, dude.....i can't believe this whole thread has gone on without someone typing the words "AREA 51"..... now it probably has the governments attention and this whole thread will be deleted in about five seconds.........

well maybe not

 

[logansun]

Spinning out of control! What was the origional q? I think I've heard this argument on a street corner once....maybe more than once. The HIPPIE AND THE POLITICIAN...Why can't we just all get along.

 

[Immelman]

Sorry

I did see Area 51/Groom Lake though, once, as noted in my first reply.

 

[furloughfodder]

Here is an overhead picture of the airport.

Psst. Don't tell anyone where you saw it....

http://www.fas.org/irp/overhead/ikonos_040400_overview_02-f.htm

 

[FracCapt]

As I said before, if a mildly secret installation like Edwards saw fit to bury toxic waste in the desert and nearly every other military installation in the country has had some kind of cleanup operation at some point do you really think a highly secret installation would have it all trucked out and properly disposed of?

When has Edwards EVER been even a "mildly secret installation"? I spent LOTS of time out there...and I never knew it was a "secret installation"! I guess they kept it from everybody there, in addition to the general public! North Edwards(aka North base) was, and still is, somewhat of a classified operation....but not to the extent you seem to indicate.

Where's your proof about the toxic waste found in the desert? Where's the proof about the "highest cancer rates in California" being found in Rosamond? Trust me, I know a LITTLE BIT about that little sh!thole town!

 

[avbug]

Congratulations on how much energy you put into your vitriol. Knee-jerk reactionism aside, you have a clearly defined argument without as much as a hint of intellectualism behind it. Bravo. All of us can clearly see you haven't dared waste your higher education on considering things like ecology, the bible, or personal responsibility vis a vis our home planet. If we're lucky, you'll procreate.

Four beautiful kids for whom I'd die in a heartbeat, thank you much.

Higher education? What on earth every caused you to suppose I'm the prostrate victim of "higher education," or for that matter that education as you see fit is anything more defining than a bit of paper and submission to institutionalized servitude?

I'm a redneck, I own a lot of weapons, and I vote. What more do you want to know?

 

[TrafficInSight]

When has Edwards EVER been even a "mildly secret installation"? I spent LOTS of time out there...and I never knew it was a "secret installation"! I guess they kept it from everybody there, in addition to the general public! North Edwards(aka North base) was, and still is, somewhat of a classified operation....but not to the extent you seem to indicate.

Where's your proof about the toxic waste found in the desert? Where's the proof about the "highest cancer rates in California" being found in Rosamond? Trust me, I know a LITTLE BIT about that little sh!thole town!

I lived there for a year and it was all over the papers every time they unearthed more leaky drums.

And I don't understand, are you agreeing that it's a mildly secret installation or not?

 

[LearLove]

So could a guy like me get a job with thoes guys? Short hops/home every night, sign me up. Where does one apply?

 

[LearLove]

The glorys day of test flying are long over. Anything thats flying out there is some kind of regular speed or hypersonic stealthy UCAV. Other stuff tested there would be next gen "kind" weapons like ultra-sonic stuff that confuses masses of soldiers/people so they cant fight.

Just MHO

 

[Pugh]

The glorys day of test flying are long over. Anything thats flying out there is some kind of regular speed or hypersonic stealthy UCAV. Other stuff tested there would be next gen "kind" weapons like ultra-sonic stuff that confuses masses of soldiers/people so they cant fight.

Just MHO

You could always be a test subject for the Air Force's aphrodisiac that turns enemy soldiers into homosexuals.

On a more serious note...it does seem today that military aircraft designs are less "fanciful" than in years past. I bet if we were told what they acutally do at Groom Lake, we'd be dissapointed.

 

[O-Line]

Crossing over Beatty VOR at FL350 on my way from PHX to RNO at 4 AM, I use to point out the lights of the base about 50 miles off the right wing and ask passengers (when we had one) if they saw it. Most of course said yeah. Then I'd say, "no you don't. That place doesn't exist."

They do a lot of testing of their stuff at night too. Don't ask me how I know that...

I can remember flying up J92 at FL430 and looking up and seeing a contrail, "way the hell up there."

Actually there where a couple of contrails flying circular orbits just south of J92, the thing must have had a chase plane. It's amazing what you don't see in the moonlight .

 

[Kawasumi_Kichou]

Heh heh, every year at the Nellis AFB air show there are vendors selling posters of that satellite image of the base that does not exist.

 

[Kingairrick]

Until recently, the facility was supported by one 12,400 long 100 foot wide hard surface runway, which extends onto the dry lake bed North, giving it a total length of 25,300 feet

I'd like to see the aircraft that needs 25,300 feet for balanced field. Got to be a cool bird.

 

[Hovernut]

I read or heard somewhere that they were scaling back ops there in favor of a new base in SW Utah. Who knows what's going on on some of the isolated islands in the S. Pacific where we used to test the big nukes. Oh, the stories the old timers used to tell at Los Alamos about those blasts! Would've been cool to see.

I believe you can get a tour of the Nevada Test Site to see the old 'atomic towns' that were blown up in the air burst tests. Twice a year, I believe, as well as Trinity Site in NM where the first A-Bomb was detonated. Been there...pretty wild!

Ross Avaiation is a gov't contractor, too. They used to fly the guys from Los Alamos to the NTS. When I left the lab, they were still doing flights primarily in support of NTS, and testing airborne special nuclear materials detection equipment...now maybe for DHS.

Ahh, the good ol' days of defending our existance against the red menace!

 

[CorpLearDriver]

I can remember flying up J92 at FL430 and looking up and seeing a contrail, "way the hell up there."

Actually there where a couple of contrails flying circular orbits just south of J92, the thing must have had a chase plane. It's amazing what you don't see in the moonlight .

One night we were cruising along and the LA Center controller came on all excited but then backed off. He was mad (saw was I) that something had overshot the boundry and came right at us. They must have seen us and changed altitude and direction at the last second. The contoller breathed easier and explained that they are suppose to let them know when they are leaving the area because I guess they sometimes have blacked out sectors during tests. That's one of those near misses that I will never know what it was that almost hit us.

On other nights, some altitudes we flew at were blocked off and we often were asked if we saw anything. Most nights it was pitch black so the answer was no. But the real fun was when they had all the war games on both sides of the jet route and we got a front row seat of all the rockets red glare stuff..... Airline pilots would often ask what war we were fighting.

 

[billybob sblade]

[I]I'd like to see the aircraft that needs 25,300 feet for balanced field. Got to be a cool bird.[/I]


I left Beale in August 1977 on glowing heat mission. We'd just finished refueling northbound over the Siskyou mountains and lost an engine after a compressor engine stall. Beale was overcast and our mission plan at the time called for recovery at Groom Lake. When the engine lunched, it damaged our drag parachute and with no cable brake on the runway, we rolled out over 17,000 feet. That extra runway got a pretty fair amount of use from various aircraft up into the early '90s.

 

[sqwkvfr]

I say alleged because there is no proof and there have never been any investigations

Let me see if I've got this straight....You're pi$$ed because someone may or may not have stored or dumped hazardous waste based on a investigation that never happened at a military base that doesn't exist where no one knows what occurs in the middle of a part of the country so lifeless, barren and desolate that it was chosen for this type of installation in the first place and is a stones throw away from a future nuclear waste storage facility in the middle of the stinkin' desert on government land that will never be sold, developed, or used for anything other than government testing.

Just out of curiousity, how do you react when they screw up your order at Starbucks???

 

[TrafficInSight]

Let me see if I've got this straight....You're pi$$ed because someone may or may not have stored or dumped hazardous waste based on a investigation that never happened at a military base that doesn't exist where no one knows what occurs in the middle of a part of the country so lifeless, barren and desolate that it was chosen for this type of installation in the first place and is a stones throw away from a future nuclear waste storage facility in the middle of the stinkin' desert on government land that will never be sold, developed, or used for anything other than government testing.

Just out of curiousity, how do you react when they screw up your order at Starbucks???

Don't like coffee so I'm not a Starbucks patron and comparing a screwed up order to dumping toxic waste just doesn't fly.

And to say that I'm pi$$ed is overreacting... the original post was just a smartass comment that I was forced to defend. Nobody likes a smartass. Sorry, but no matter how much you ignore it, what you don't know can hurt you.

 

[CorpLearDriver]

[I]I'd like to see the aircraft that needs 25,300 feet for balanced field. Got to be a cool bird.[/I]


I left Beale in August 1977 on glowing heat mission. We'd just finished refueling northbound over the Siskyou mountains and lost an engine after a compressor engine stall. Beale was overcast and our mission plan at the time called for recovery at Groom Lake. When the engine lunched, it damaged our drag parachute and with no cable brake on the runway, we rolled out over 17,000 feet. That extra runway got a pretty fair amount of use from various aircraft up into the early '90s.

When I first read this without looking at your profile, I knew you had to be an SR-71 driver. When we were flying J92 in the middle of the night, we heard Oakland center talking to the U-2 pilots climbing out over Marysville. "Pinion #, Radar contact 12 miles south of Marysville, climb to at or above FL600" Then a little while later Center would say goodbye to them as they climbed above that FL. The SR-71 program had long since ceased.

I was airborne overhead in a Twin Otter when one of the last SR-71s departed out of Palmdale on one of those media flights at the end of the program. Man thats and awesome looking machine.

 

[RedBeard]

Here's a interesting article of someone who flew around the restricted areas of Groom Lake:

A Grand Aerial Circumnavigation of Area 51

I drove out to Vegas a couple of years ago and headed up to Rachel NV in true tourist fashion. I camped out on Coyote Summit (about 10 miles up the road from Rachel NV) and didn't get to see any little green men or UFOs. But at about 11pm, I did get to watch 2 F-15s play around with full afterburners and flares flying around.

I drove to the border of Area 51, watched the camo dudes while they watched me, and even drove up the road to Tikaboo peak. Didn't hike the last mile up, though... I wasn't THAT impressed with Area 51.

 

[Spooky 1]

Back in the early 80's we used to fly a trip that departed SAN around 0730 and go up to SLC. On Sundays LA CTR. would hand us off to Nellis Radar and we could cut the corner and look darn near right down at Dream Land as it was refered to in those days at least. If we would ask the controller what's the name of the at air[port he would reply in one of two ways. You can see that airport?, Make an immedediate right 90 degree turn. The other answer, even funnier was something like, "there is no airport there", end of conversation.

The original B737's that were used for transporting workers to and from were purcahased from Western Airlines by Lockheed and WAL did the crew training. An interesting group of pilots to say the least. I believe the original cadre of pilots were employeed by Lockheed but as posted earlier, the pilots today are EG&G employees.

In the early sixties I did some early morning flying out of BUR. Lockheed had two Connies. One a 1649 and the other a 749. Both in an all metal finish with no markings, titles or logos. They would call for a clearance to the "ranch" every morning and return late in the afternoon. I guess that Groom Lake was their destination. I believ that early in the U2 program Lockheed operated a DC4 for the same purpose. I crashed north of LAS with a total loss of life and with it, a significant number of key U2 engineering personnel.

 

[414Flyer]

I read or heard somewhere that they were scaling back ops there in favor of a new base in SW Utah. Who knows what's going on on some of the isolated islands in the S. Pacific where we used to test the big nukes. Oh, the stories the old timers used to tell at Los Alamos about those blasts! Would've been cool to see.

I believe you can get a tour of the Nevada Test Site to see the old 'atomic towns' that were blown up in the air burst tests. Twice a year, I believe, as well as Trinity Site in NM where the first A-Bomb was detonated. Been there...pretty wild!

Ross Avaiation is a gov't contractor, too. They used to fly the guys from Los Alamos to the NTS. When I left the lab, they were still doing flights primarily in support of NTS, and testing airborne special nuclear materials detection equipment...now maybe for DHS.

Ahh, the good ol' days of defending our existance against the red menace!

The article about Groom Lake being closed in favor of a Utah location, was a piece of journalistic stupidity from someone at Popular Science, who had no idea where he was going in the desert, came to a locked fence and gate, assumed that meant Groom Lake was closed and locked up. He hasnt even gone up to the border, he had made wrong turns on the way there.

I think Ross still does some DOE work but a lot less than they used to. I often see the owner of Ross, he is into his 70s, flying aerobatics above Angel Fire NM airport (airport is 8400 ft high) on nice days

 

[urflyingme?!]

Hey billybob. Feel like sharing some SR-71 stories?

 

[Spooky 1]

[I]I'd like to see the aircraft that needs 25,300 feet for balanced field. Got to be a cool bird.[/I]


I left Beale in August 1977 on glowing heat mission. We'd just finished refueling northbound over the Siskyou mountains and lost an engine after a compressor engine stall. Beale was overcast and our mission plan at the time called for recovery at Groom Lake. When the engine lunched, it damaged our drag parachute and with no cable brake on the runway, we rolled out over 17,000 feet. That extra runway got a pretty fair amount of use from various aircraft up into the early '90s.

Hey billybob, are you the same guy who used to fly the F27 for TAG out of Livermore? Seem to recall that "Bob" was also Sled driver out of Beale in the 70's.

 

[Pugh]

Hey billybob. Feel like sharing some SR-71 stories?

Yes, please

 

[billybob sblade]

That was the one and only emergency I had. It went by the book.