JAA vs. FAA license

[Skater]

Does anyone know if a FAA ATPL license allows you to work in the UK or Europe? Most jobs over there require a JAA license. I talked to an FAA guy in my 737 Type class and he thought an FAA and JAA license were interchangeable. Any insight.

 

[IFlyGC]

I've been looking into the same thing and here's what I got.....

An FAA license is good for any N registered aircraft, regardless of it's location. So, if British Airways ever got to their senses and bought a N-reg 747 I'd be fighting you for a seat....problem is, they keep on re-registering the bloody things to a G-reg and screwing us over.

Seriously for a sec, you CAN convert your licenses to the JAA format fairly easily. You need to take 14 written tests and 3 flight tests, although I believe they may waive some of that if you have 500 hours flight time in a aircraft certified for two pilots (no, CFI time doesn't count....sucks huh?).

You can take the written test prep online, and then the real exams either in the UK, or at a designated flightschool (there's one in Orlando, FL) but the flight tests have to be done in the UK. Course, now I've typed all this the rules will have changed and it's all incorrect....but as of a few moments ago, I believe it to be true.

Hope this helps,
Dave

 

[80/20]

Unfortunately you have to write all the ATPL exams and the JAA has not published the exam questions so you have to study the books which will take several months of full time studies.
There are no provisions for type rating conversion and you have to invest 16000 to 30000 USD to get a 737 type :-( ….sorry

 

[FoxHunter]

Your passport is what allows you to work in Europe. Now if you hold the correct one you can be exempt from some of the 13-14 written exams. I believe you only need 1500 hours P1(PIC) in aircraft over around 80,000 lbs. in international operations. Flying JFK- MIA does not count. You also need to take a Class 1 Medical. My understanding is that you have to make an appointment at Gatwick for your initial. They will on the date of your medical determine if you have to meet the initial or renewal standard. Cost of this medical is around $600+. After you have submitted all your logbooks to the Authorities they will determine the exams you will be required to take. Many years ago I had to take the ARB(later CAA, now JAA) Performance "A" exam. Only four questions, four hours to complete(and you needed all of it), large book of graphs, lots of graph paper. Results sent weeks later, either pass or fail.

I believe you can also get a Validation to fly a JAA Register Aircraft but the company will have to arrange this. Understand this is only good for one year.

Good Luck!

 

[mobie]

JAA/FAA

After jumping through all the hoops and spending a large sum of money the BIG IF comes up. Can you get the right to work and abode in the EU ? The EU does not want to have a loss of jobs at a cost to their own pilots (much the same as we do). Mobie

 

[flx757]

I had a company in the UK "sponsor" me several years ago, and got a CAA/JAA ATPL. Based on my experience (in excess of 3000 TT and 1500 PIC in Group II aircraft...which is transport category in excess of 60,000 kg..I think that is was the weight, but I could be wrong about that part...the hours part is correct and the Group II part is correct...just not sure what the weight cut off was)...

But anyway, to do this I had to take 2 written exams; the Air Law and the Human Factors and Performance exams, plus take the required sim checks...a Line Proficiency Check and an Ops Proficiency Check. This got me the ATPL on the B757.

Again, this was about 4 years ago and I was "sponsored" by the company, which got me a work visa and therefore the "right to work". Things are obviously a bit more difficult now, since there is no shortage of available pilots in the UK or the EU.

 

[Skater]

Thanks for the info. I guess those kind of jobs are out. Please tell me the U. S. is as hard on foreign pilots as we are on them.

What about jobs in Canada? Will they except FAA licenses?

 

[limodriver1]

You guys have no idea , what it takes!

First of all there is several ways to convert FAA to JAA licenses!

You can do it in approved flight school in USA, or you can do theory in internet or go which ever european country you desided to go and sit in class between 6months to 2 years and do your theory ATPL (not including flying part in most of the countries)and dont forget if you dont have US ATP and over 1500 multi-crew aircraft experience you first have to convert your commercial licenses in most of the cases. Not applicable in every country!

There is few excemptions and you can find those regulations from JAA website.

If you are fortunate to have US ATP and enough flight time then in most of the JAA countries you need to do2 written tests and flight check. Written tests are not like in here USA , read cleim and Rote learn it and you will do well. In Europe you have to know even most ridicilous rules and systems. Which one is better system everyone can make their own desicions.

I did it and I have to say that officials takes everybodys case individually and they tailor what you need and what you are qualified.

And yes even if you get these licenses , you might not qualify work in European union or JAA countries. Might want to check that one first. And for those whom are planning to PM or replying for my answer, Europe has no more stricter rules in immigration or working there than US has. If you are smart enough and skillfull enough to fill the need , they find way for you to stay and work there. Like lots of people finds their way to work and live in USA.

 

[80/20]

It used to be easier to convert from FAA to the European systems. After JAA and JAR-FCL was introduced in 1997 it became more time consuming and expensive. We have been waiting and hoping that this would be resolved. It seems that some of you have found JAA member states that are staring to ease off a bit and that is good news. I would very much like to learn more about this.

flx757 could you give some more details about your experience, could you confirm that it was done by UK CAA under JAR-FCL. When did you do it? Was it conducted under JAR-FCL 1.015(b)(2) “one year validation of non JAA license” or an actual conversion?

If it was a conversion was it done under JAR-FCL 1.015(c)(1) “arrangement between JAA and non-JAA State.”? This is the one we are waiting and hoping for!

Or was it done under JAR-FCL 1.016 Credit given for non-JAA licence?
(Must do all written tests and check ride – will get credit for the hours)

Or did the company “cut a special deal with CAA?” (Yes that does happen)

Any information that you or others could share on this topic would be much appreciated and used to help others that need conversions.

Skater you asked about Canada, I went from FAA to TCCA (Canada) in 1988 and had to write the tests and do a check ride (similar as with Europe). And yes it is the same system to go from JAA to FAA but the written is easier since you can buy the question books.

Finally I agree 100% with – sort out the work permit first.

 

[flx757]

80/20,

I wish I could give you more information. I don't know which JAR-FCL number it was done under. I can tell you as I stated above what steps I took to get it...and it was done as part of a recipricol deal with our airline and one in the UK where some of our pilots got ATPLs over there, and some of their pilots would come over here and get FAA ATPs. So, I think it was as you mentioned...one of those "special deals that was cut". However, mine was not a one year valitdation,, (although some of the guys did get that, based on their experience). I got the full ATPL.

 

[Stewage]

I am a Yank with less than 3000 hours and in the process of converting my license now. I am going through Bristol GS (www.bristol.gs) for the program and taking my tests in Florida. Bristol is a pretty good op. I am doing a brush up course via the international flight academy in Florida. Antonia Fisher (www.goifta.com) has been a HUGE help, it is like having my own solicitor who knows all of the ever changing stuff. I can't recommend both enough.

I saw some of the folks mentioned a work permit. This is a HUGE issue, you are competing agains all of the EU now. My wife is a Brit, but it is unlikely (right now) that a company would pursue a work permit if you don't have the right to live and work in the UK/EU. This, of course, may change in the future if another pilot shortage occurs.

Hope this helps.

Fly Safe.

 

[Dizel8]

So, if anyone knows. Provided you do the requirements below, does one get a license, that meets JAR requirements and can be used in all EU countries, or will it be restricted to UK aircrafts only?


If you are very experienced you should you should apply to the CAA for a formal assessment using FCL form 680, obtainable here.

The qualifying criteria are

more than 3000 hours total time on aircraft of more than 30,000kg AUW
more than 1500 hours pilot in command on aircraft of more than 30,000kg AUW
Type rated on an aircraft of more than 30,000kg AUW
More than 500 hours total time on the aircraft above
Able to complete a flight test on the same aircraft
When you have completed it you need to send it or take it to the CAA with original licences and log books. The CAA will tell you that you need to pass two written exams, Human Performance and Aviation Law, and pass a flight test on the aircraft you are rated on. The flight test is referred to as a skills test, it is part handling check and part IR renewal check.