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JAA License
- Thread starter BigFlyr
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Britpilot
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bobbysamd
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JAA license
I didn't know this until recently, but you can earn JAA licenses at schools in the U.S.
I just did a quick search and found UK Flight Training in California. I also believe that Comair offers a JAA course.
Hope that helps some more. Good luck with your training.
I didn't know this until recently, but you can earn JAA licenses at schools in the U.S.
I just did a quick search and found UK Flight Training in California. I also believe that Comair offers a JAA course.
Hope that helps some more. Good luck with your training.
I am from Europe and I gave up just THINKING about converting. EMcx2 is right, you can't simply "convert;" you will have to pretty much do everything from scratch. Why I gave up thinknig about it? 15 written exams for the ATPL at $100 each, before which you have to take a 6 months course at a JAA approved ground school, folloed by the commercial flight training part (30 hours), IFR (40 hours) and MCC/type rating. That's what it takes to be employable over there. Oh yeah, and before starting the whole thing, you better go to Europe and get your initial first class medical; it takes all day and the standards are way hiher than here. I know of people who can't pass it. I see the difference in the medical standards like this: in the US we look we just make sure you are fit to fly. In Europe, they look for something to keep you from flying. I know it sounds stupid, but because you can get a first class here really doesn't mean you will over there.
Now if you have a US ATP and a US type rating, there is a quicker way to get the JAA ATPL. I believe that you still have to take the 15 written tests, but after that all you have to do is a JAA type rating and that's it. I think you must have 500 hours PIC in the aircraft too.
If you want to deal with all that hassle, I would suggest www.pprune.com which is another forum as good as this one, but more europeans. Do a search there, or I think that they have a training section as well. Oh yeah, one last thing: if you decide to convert, do it the British way! It's the one that's most convenient... I hope that helped and good luck!
Buck
Now if you have a US ATP and a US type rating, there is a quicker way to get the JAA ATPL. I believe that you still have to take the 15 written tests, but after that all you have to do is a JAA type rating and that's it. I think you must have 500 hours PIC in the aircraft too.
If you want to deal with all that hassle, I would suggest www.pprune.com which is another forum as good as this one, but more europeans. Do a search there, or I think that they have a training section as well. Oh yeah, one last thing: if you decide to convert, do it the British way! It's the one that's most convenient... I hope that helped and good luck!
Buck
80/20
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I wrote about this some time ago and will paste it in again with some additions:
A FAA pilot certificate can be converted to a JAA license. This is described in JAR-FCL-1 (The equivalence of FAR PART 61, 141 & 142)
JAR-FCL states in part that: (Simplified with my personal explaining comments added):
The holder of an ATPL (such as a FAA ATP) issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 may be exempted from the requirements to undergo approved training prior to undertaking the theoretical knowledge examinations (written tests) and the skill test (checkride).
This means that you don’t have to follow the entire course; you "just" to take the tests.
The skill test for the instrument rating (or ATPL) must be taken in a JAA Member State at the discretion of the European Authority that approves the training. A FTO (European flight school) providing approved training for the instrument rating (or ATPL) outside JAA Member States will need to make arrangements for the approved course to include acclimatisation flying in the JAA Member State of the approving Authority (NAA) [or in the airspace of any JAA Member State at the discretion of the approving Authority] prior to any student taking the skill test (checkride).
The part about taking the checkride in "JAA airspace" and the approval at the discretion is handled differently by various countries. As an example, the Swiss appears to have delegated a high level of approval to a program that I believe is conducted at FlightSafety in Florida. Suggest you contact them for specific details.
The hardest part is the written tests. Both United States and European pilots have comparable safety records and the end product remains essentially the same. But training philosophies differ significantly. Large differences exist in the JAA ATPL groundschool. JAA require at least 650 hours of ATP groundschool in classroom or distance learning followed by more than ten theoretical written test. Unlike the FAA, the JAA does not publish the written tests. You can not just study exam questions in a test prep book. You need to know the text books in detail. The ATPL syllabus can be compared to a university level program.
You can download JAR-FCL from the JAA website at:
http://www.jaa.nl/section1/jars/42/20/422078/422078.pdf
this is a 1.73mb pdf file and the ATPL written tests are listed on pdf page 149 (Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.470 Theoretical knowledge examination subjects / sections and length of examinations – ATPL)
A more detailed explanation of the theoretical ATPL syllabus is found at:
http://www.jaa.nl/licensing/jar-fcl...tpla_frame.html
A FAA-JAA harmonization committee are trying to simplify conversions but have not been able to agree yet. It looks like the process will be simplified, but no promises of when.
Right now I would suggest to wait, unless you have a long term plan of living in a JAA nation or are in the category for which there is a shortage of right now.
Another short term option is validation, but then you need to find someone who really needs you.
A FAA pilot certificate can be converted to a JAA license. This is described in JAR-FCL-1 (The equivalence of FAR PART 61, 141 & 142)
JAR-FCL states in part that: (Simplified with my personal explaining comments added):
The holder of an ATPL (such as a FAA ATP) issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 may be exempted from the requirements to undergo approved training prior to undertaking the theoretical knowledge examinations (written tests) and the skill test (checkride).
This means that you don’t have to follow the entire course; you "just" to take the tests.
The skill test for the instrument rating (or ATPL) must be taken in a JAA Member State at the discretion of the European Authority that approves the training. A FTO (European flight school) providing approved training for the instrument rating (or ATPL) outside JAA Member States will need to make arrangements for the approved course to include acclimatisation flying in the JAA Member State of the approving Authority (NAA) [or in the airspace of any JAA Member State at the discretion of the approving Authority] prior to any student taking the skill test (checkride).
The part about taking the checkride in "JAA airspace" and the approval at the discretion is handled differently by various countries. As an example, the Swiss appears to have delegated a high level of approval to a program that I believe is conducted at FlightSafety in Florida. Suggest you contact them for specific details.
The hardest part is the written tests. Both United States and European pilots have comparable safety records and the end product remains essentially the same. But training philosophies differ significantly. Large differences exist in the JAA ATPL groundschool. JAA require at least 650 hours of ATP groundschool in classroom or distance learning followed by more than ten theoretical written test. Unlike the FAA, the JAA does not publish the written tests. You can not just study exam questions in a test prep book. You need to know the text books in detail. The ATPL syllabus can be compared to a university level program.
You can download JAR-FCL from the JAA website at:
http://www.jaa.nl/section1/jars/42/20/422078/422078.pdf
this is a 1.73mb pdf file and the ATPL written tests are listed on pdf page 149 (Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.470 Theoretical knowledge examination subjects / sections and length of examinations – ATPL)
A more detailed explanation of the theoretical ATPL syllabus is found at:
http://www.jaa.nl/licensing/jar-fcl...tpla_frame.html
A FAA-JAA harmonization committee are trying to simplify conversions but have not been able to agree yet. It looks like the process will be simplified, but no promises of when.
Right now I would suggest to wait, unless you have a long term plan of living in a JAA nation or are in the category for which there is a shortage of right now.
Another short term option is validation, but then you need to find someone who really needs you.
BigFlyr
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- Nov 28, 2001
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I knew it was a complicated process and have two Spanish friends who have converted their licenses in Spain. However, it was quite complicated, expensive and required living there for about 8 months. One of them is now employed by Ryan Air... somewhat of a SWA type of airline based in England, that pays very well. I would not be comfortable taking the tests in Spanish, eventhough I speak it, and was wondering if there was a local school (south Florida) that offers classes in preparation for the required tests. It would be even better if those tests could be taken in the US... I don't see why they couldn't... An airplane doesn't care where it is
Here's a few facts to answer some questions you have:
- Every member state has to over the exams in their own language and in English. So you can go to Spain and take the test in english...
- You don't have to be in Europe to convert. As long as the school is JAA approved, it's good. Either for ground, or flight training.
- The initial medical has to be obtained in Europe. Renewals can be done in the US.
- Before enroling for a ground school, everybody go get their JAA initial medical to make sure it won't be a problem later. Stats show that as you get older, the rate of failure on the initial increases.
- In Europe, the medical is a big selection criteria for those who want to become pilots.
- Medical renewals are not as tough as the initial.
- After the medical is out of the picture, the writtens are next.
- For the 15 written exams, one has to enrol in a JAA approved ground school which lasts around 6 months (full time).
- The ground can also be taken distance learning if the school got approved for it. In this case, it lasts about 8 months.
- The exams are devided into 2 sessions: half the subject after 3 months, the other half 3 months later.
- The tests are very demending, very theoritical as well. They are another mean of selection.
- The writtens and the medical are the 2 major obstacles and means of selction.
Here's a link to the school I was in contact with in Florida. They are called Naples Air Center, offer both FAA and JAA training, they are a testing center for the JAA writtens, and the ground school is both on site and distance. If I decide to convert myself, that's where I will do it.
http://www.naples-air-center.com/
Go to the JAA section of the school, and you will have all the information you need. You can PM me if you want to know more too.
Buck
- Every member state has to over the exams in their own language and in English. So you can go to Spain and take the test in english...
- You don't have to be in Europe to convert. As long as the school is JAA approved, it's good. Either for ground, or flight training.
- The initial medical has to be obtained in Europe. Renewals can be done in the US.
- Before enroling for a ground school, everybody go get their JAA initial medical to make sure it won't be a problem later. Stats show that as you get older, the rate of failure on the initial increases.
- In Europe, the medical is a big selection criteria for those who want to become pilots.
- Medical renewals are not as tough as the initial.
- After the medical is out of the picture, the writtens are next.
- For the 15 written exams, one has to enrol in a JAA approved ground school which lasts around 6 months (full time).
- The ground can also be taken distance learning if the school got approved for it. In this case, it lasts about 8 months.
- The exams are devided into 2 sessions: half the subject after 3 months, the other half 3 months later.
- The tests are very demending, very theoritical as well. They are another mean of selection.
- The writtens and the medical are the 2 major obstacles and means of selction.
Here's a link to the school I was in contact with in Florida. They are called Naples Air Center, offer both FAA and JAA training, they are a testing center for the JAA writtens, and the ground school is both on site and distance. If I decide to convert myself, that's where I will do it.
http://www.naples-air-center.com/
Go to the JAA section of the school, and you will have all the information you need. You can PM me if you want to know more too.
Buck
Re: The next question is...
Same as here, you must have the legal right to work...
Also some airlines will require to speak the language. The only one I know of that doesn't is SAS; English is just fine, but they want you to start learning a scandinavian language if they hire you.
Buck
de727ups said:
Same as here, you must have the legal right to work...
Also some airlines will require to speak the language. The only one I know of that doesn't is SAS; English is just fine, but they want you to start learning a scandinavian language if they hire you.
Buck
Capt. Haddock
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BigFlyr
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- Nov 28, 2001
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Re: The next question is...
You're right... Most of the jobs (not all) available in Europe require that you be a national of the country offering the job, or in the case of the European Community, a national of one the member countries. In my case, eventhough I am a US citizen, I was previously a Spanish citizen and can renew my citizenship, as Spain recognizes dual citizenship, and is a member of the European Community. It's still a "moonshot" to go through the licensing conversion process though...
de727ups said:
You're right... Most of the jobs (not all) available in Europe require that you be a national of the country offering the job, or in the case of the European Community, a national of one the member countries. In my case, eventhough I am a US citizen, I was previously a Spanish citizen and can renew my citizenship, as Spain recognizes dual citizenship, and is a member of the European Community. It's still a "moonshot" to go through the licensing conversion process though...
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