It's on.... SFO-MDW, SAN, LAS

[Whataburger]

Song won Reader's Digest's poll for best Low Cost carrier, .......

Bye Bye--General Lee

The magazine with the half naked African ladies on the front? I bet they really know their airlines.:smash:

 

[skiandsurf]

you people are clueless. first of all I dont think that swa is having a hard time finding passengers.

I thought SWA just posted a drop in load factors. I fly on SWA a couple of times a month and for the most part, it is only the "A" boarding group (whats that 30 pax). I like flying SWA as I can go toward the back and get the last 7 rows to myself.

 

[The Victors]

swa has carried the hightest number of domestic passengers the last 3 years running

 

[skiandsurf]

swa has carried the hightest number of domestic passengers the last 3 years running

I am not saying that they dont carry a lot of people, and I am not saying that SWA isnt a good airline, but the pax loads arent keeping up with the growth.

Reference this article.......toward the end, there is a short write-up about SWA.

http://gbr.pepperdine.edu/064/airlines.html

 

[firstthird]

load factor is just one metric. traditionally we like to keep ours lower than the majors and lower than it was last year. that doesn't mean we wanted it to go down, but the only people that really know are the big brains doing the load management at the headquarters.

that being said, Gary Kelly wasn't too happy with the results from the first quarter and has given guidance of a soft domestic market, so it sorta sounds like the drop in load factor wasn't planned, or at least not that much.

 

[skiandsurf]

load factor is just one metric. traditionally we like to keep ours lower than the majors and lower than it was last year.

The major airlines used to plan for a 70% load factor. Anything more than that was a disservice to the pax. Then SWA came into the picture with low fares, and the major airlines had to drop the fares to compete, and then the load factors went too high. Now the fares are too low, the planes are too full (except SWA), and the pax are upset (lost bags, full planes, meals for sale, etc).

 

[RJAA]

What makes Southwest so special now after the fuel hedges are running out and when the legacies cost structures have dropped significantly.

I will say it again, Southwest stands for cheap tickets and the best deals in the country. However, Southwest has realized that it can no longer offer that and make record profits. Therefore, they are forced to look at other business models like code-sharing and upping their service which are never part of their traditional way of doing their business. They have also started flying to crappy airports like PHL and SFO.

So what makes Southwest so different compared to others now except they don't offer first class? Why would someone take a flight from Houston to Baltimore/Washington D.C on them. I'd bet you money Continental fares are at least competive or might be even cheaper, with plenty of non-stop options to 3 airports in DC area. Southwest may even make a stop or two along the way. Now, Continental may operate those flights at a loss with that kind of fares, but it has some ability to make it up with international revenue. What could Southwest do with the loss at that point? Also, a large portion of the consumers will continue to run to Orbitz, Priceline and Travelocity for better deals where Southwest does not participate, a part of harsh industry wide reality of not being able to charge the consumers more to fly.

Also, by the way, whoever came out and said Swan Song was doing well overrall and Delta smartly pulled out is clearly delusional. Song was one of the dummest things Delta has done in it's history.

 

[SaabStory]

Song won Reader's Digest's poll for best Low Cost carrier,

milk just shot outta my nose...

 

[The Victors]

What makes Southwest so special now after the fuel hedges are running out and when the legacies cost structures have dropped significantly.

I will say it again, Southwest stands for cheap tickets and the best deals in the country. However, Southwest has realized that it can no longer offer that and make record profits. Therefore, they are forced to look at other business models like code-sharing and upping their service which are never part of their traditional way of doing their business. They have also started flying to crappy airports like PHL and SFO.

So what makes Southwest so different compared to others now except they don't offer first class? Why would someone take a flight from Houston to Baltimore/Washington D.C on them. I'd bet you money Continental fares are at least competive or might be even cheaper, with plenty of non-stop options to 3 airports in DC area. Southwest may even make a stop or two along the way. Now, Continental may operate those flights at a loss with that kind of fares, but it has some ability to make it up with international revenue. What could Southwest do with the loss at that point? Also, a large portion of the consumers will continue to run to Orbitz, Priceline and Travelocity for better deals where Southwest does not participate, a part of harsh industry wide reality of not being able to charge the consumers more to fly.

Also, by the way, whoever came out and said Swan Song was doing well overrall and Delta smartly pulled out is clearly delusional. Song was one of the dummest things Delta has done in it's history.

I guess you're making the ASSumption that CAL pilots and the other employees are going to continue to accept walmart wages and screw over the junior guys with no medical bennies. All you legacie pilots make it sound like your management came up with some brilliant plan and then lowered the cost structure. When in reality they took it right out of your, and everyone else, paycheck.

 

[General Lee]

What makes Southwest so special now after the fuel hedges are running out and when the legacies cost structures have dropped significantly.

I will say it again, Southwest stands for cheap tickets and the best deals in the country. However, Southwest has realized that it can no longer offer that and make record profits. Therefore, they are forced to look at other business models like code-sharing and upping their service which are never part of their traditional way of doing their business. They have also started flying to crappy airports like PHL and SFO.

So what makes Southwest so different compared to others now except they don't offer first class? Why would someone take a flight from Houston to Baltimore/Washington D.C on them. I'd bet you money Continental fares are at least competive or might be even cheaper, with plenty of non-stop options to 3 airports in DC area. Southwest may even make a stop or two along the way. Now, Continental may operate those flights at a loss with that kind of fares, but it has some ability to make it up with international revenue. What could Southwest do with the loss at that point? Also, a large portion of the consumers will continue to run to Orbitz, Priceline and Travelocity for better deals where Southwest does not participate, a part of harsh industry wide reality of not being able to charge the consumers more to fly.

Also, by the way, whoever came out and said Swan Song was doing well overrall and Delta smartly pulled out is clearly delusional. Song was one of the dummest things Delta has done in it's history.

Delusional, eh? WRONG. We had to compete against Jetblue on the East Coast, since they did have a better product at the time, and we were using 737-200s at Delta Express. We were the second airline to use a live TV (we use Dish Network), and we were doing well overall, with critical acclaim from several magazines (Reader's Digest being one of them). But, after some thought and seeing that our core market liked the Song idea but wanted the first class seats and experience along with the Dish Network TVs, we SMARTLY decided to change Song back into Mainline and offer the TVs on mainline, which will eventually include TVs on 738s as well, and anything over 1700 nms. It was an experiment that showed us what everyone wanted, the option for a first class seat along with TVs too. It may have accelerated our BK, but in BK we shed $13 billion in debt and we are stronger now for it. You have a great day.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[RJAA]

Well then, thanks for all of the non-rev opportunities while it lasted! Wherever there was a Song, no worries! Good day.

 

[General Lee]

Well then, thanks for all of the non-rev opportunities while it lasted! Wherever there was a Song, no worries! Good day.

That's funny, most of the Song flights I flew were full. Anyway, now a lot more flights are full because we have moved most of the domestic 767s over to the INTL side, and the 757s and 738s are filling in for them, tightening the supply. Good Aye.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[CA Calypso]

General,

Song was copied directly from jetBlue. How very original of your company. Especially since the concept of an airline within an airline was attempted many times before with much success - Metrojet, Shuttle by United, CLite, and even your very own Delta Express. They all worked out so well before.

Fact is, you got your a--es handed to you by the likes of jetBlue, Airtran, and SWA. Hence the retreat in Florida and your vast international expansion plans.

At least you copied an airline with a great product - that's the reason for the highly coveted Reader's Digest Poll. Congratulations - your fantastic management team copied a competitor's product and gave your airline an identity crisis. I overheard Delta passengers exclaim that they thought they were flying on Delta and stood there incredulously staring at a white and green 757. Another great idea - Let's train our FA's to actually have fun and be kind to our customers. I'm surprised you didn't win another Reader's Digest Poll for that brilliant flash of genius.

As you said your mangaement team wisely decided to do what Delta was good at - go after the full fare businessman. It wasn't because as you said:

"it was doing well overall, but we figured we shouldn't go after Southwest's normal passenger (the one that has never been on a plane before, but has heard them fly over the trailer park).

Yeah right, Delta is in a position to refuse certain peoples' money because it's not good enough!!! Those peoples' money doesn't pay your bills does it? You further weaken your argument when you resort to insulting people on a personal level. If you truly believe the majority of SWA's passengers reside in trailer parks and don't eat with forks then I invite you to say that to them when they depart our jetway...

You have a superiority complex that you have not earned.

It pains me to admit this but I purchased tickets on Delta to Grand Cayman through Atlanta. I must admit I enjoyed your bankruptcy fares. The flight to Atlanta was on one of your commuters. I came from the Commuter ranks so I do not mean this personally to any Commuter pilot but that experience was one of the worst I have ever had. I won't bore everyone with the details but the Customer Service Agents hated their jobs, were terriibly rude, and mistreated all of YOUR customers. Great new EMB 170 but a terrible experience. All of the suits on that flight were very impressed as well. You will say that wasn't really Delta but to everyone there that day it was. How many of your Delta flights are operated by your Regionals again? Delta has lost a lot of quality control contracting out its' flying.

The connecting flight on your 757 to Grand Cayman was fine but nothing special. A coke and a snack. Flight Attendants that would rather be elsewhere. What a premium product you have. I have news for you - the people I sat next to were no different than the people I fly around everyday and I'm sure their money spends the same way.

Wake up General, you need to be part of a sustainable business. All of the money spends the same whether it came from JFK or LBB...

 

[CA Calypso]

Delusional, eh? WRONG. We had to compete against Jetblue on the East Coast, since they did have a better product at the time, and we were using 737-200s at Delta Express. We were the second airline to use a live TV (we use Dish Network), and we were doing well overall, with critical acclaim from several magazines (Reader's Digest being one of them). But, after some thought and seeing that our core market liked the Song idea but wanted the first class seats and experience along with the Dish Network TVs, we SMARTLY decided to change Song back into Mainline and offer the TVs on mainline, which will eventually include TVs on 738s as well, and anything over 1700 nms. It was an experiment that showed us what everyone wanted, the option for a first class seat along with TVs too. It may have accelerated our BK, but in BK we shed $13 billion in debt and we are stronger now for it. You have a great day.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Congrats on your critical acclaim. What a very expensive experiment you guys discovered - Delta customers actually wanted to receive what actually had made delta successful in the first place.

You should have asked me - I would have only charged Delta a $5 million consulting fee. I then could have had a nice dinner and bought forks for our passengers to use at home in their trailer parks.

Also, congats on shedding your mismanaged $13 billion debt on the backs of your own coworkers and your creditors (and all of their employees and families). You are now stronger for it - you should be proud.

Soon you can start another mismanaged airline within an airline designed especially for you. You can fly only 787s to and from Paris with Direct TV, Fresh live Maine Lobsters, and Evian Water all in the cockpit. You can even issue more stock that will later be declared worthless to buy gold forks for you and your captain...

 

[General Lee]

General,

Song was copied directly from jetBlue. How very original of your company. Especially since the concept of an airline within an airline was attempted many times before with much success - Metrojet, Shuttle by United, CLite, and even your very own Delta Express. They all worked out so well before.

Fact is, you got your a--es handed to you by the likes of jetBlue, Airtran, and SWA. Hence the retreat in Florida and your vast international expansion plans.

At least you copied an airline with a great product - that's the reason for the highly coveted Reader's Digest Poll. Congratulations - your fantastic management team copied a competitor's product and gave your airline an identity crisis. I overheard Delta passengers exclaim that they thought they were flying on Delta and stood there incredulously staring at a white and green 757. Another great idea - Let's train our FA's to actually have fun and be kind to our customers. I'm surprised you didn't win another Reader's Digest Poll for that brilliant flash of genius.

As you said your mangaement team wisely decided to do what Delta was good at - go after the full fare businessman. It wasn't because as you said:

"it was doing well overall, but we figured we shouldn't go after Southwest's normal passenger (the one that has never been on a plane before, but has heard them fly over the trailer park).

Yeah right, Delta is in a position to refuse certain peoples' money because it's not good enough!!! Those peoples' money doesn't pay your bills does it? You further weaken your argument when you resort to insulting people on a personal level. If you truly believe the majority of SWA's passengers reside in trailer parks and don't eat with forks then I invite you to say that to them when they depart our jetway...

You have a superiority complex that you have not earned.

It pains me to admit this but I purchased tickets on Delta to Grand Cayman through Atlanta. I must admit I enjoyed your bankruptcy fares. The flight to Atlanta was on one of your commuters. I came from the Commuter ranks so I do not mean this personally to any Commuter pilot but that experience was one of the worst I have ever had. I won't bore everyone with the details but the Customer Service Agents hated their jobs, were terriibly rude, and mistreated all of YOUR customers. Great new EMB 170 but a terrible experience. All of the suits on that flight were very impressed as well. You will say that wasn't really Delta but to everyone there that day it was. How many of your Delta flights are operated by your Regionals again? Delta has lost a lot of quality control contracting out its' flying.

The connecting flight on your 757 to Grand Cayman was fine but nothing special. A coke and a snack. Flight Attendants that would rather be elsewhere. What a premium product you have. I have news for you - the people I sat next to were no different than the people I fly around everyday and I'm sure their money spends the same way.

Wake up General, you need to be part of a sustainable business. All of the money spends the same whether it came from JFK or LBB...

That was a hillarious diatribe. Really. Wow, you flew on us to Grand Cayman. Welcome to somewhere outside the contiguous 48 states. Seen too much of LBB?

Yeah, Song was created to combat Jetblue. How are they doing now? That Valentine's masacre weekend they had shot their reputation to the Moon. Then, their figurehead Neeleman was ASKED by the JB Board to LEAVE. Yep, he didn't resign on his own either. Sounds like things may be getting interesting over there....hint hint.


I have a "superiority complex I haven't earned....." Hmmmmmm. Well, your pay rates at SWA are thanks to us at DL. We brought the rates up to the top, and had Leo Mullin not bought back $2 billion in stock 2 weeks before 9-11 that evaportated later, we might not have gone into Chap 11, and we might have our own rates closer to where they were before. Your airline has not done anything for the "average pilot" except allowed them to clean the cabin, accept 6 leg days with 25 minute turns, and fly almost naked to make new stews laugh. Even Jay Leno slammed your airline tonight, essentially calling it a cattle car. But hey, atleast you have those cool bomber jackets... You look cool in those in AMA.

Being a part of a sustainable business, eh? What is SWA doing these days? Have you been reading your own press? Gary Kelly is getting nervous. He is trying things to get revenue up to where it has been the last few years, with new gimics. What about the INTL travel bit? He is thinking of ways to try to sustain your pay raises (and your stews) while watching his fuel hedges dwindle and LCCs grow all over the place. We fly INTL passengers mainly from Europe back over here. Why? Because the dollar is cheaper over there, and they can easily afford a $500 ticket to ATL and onto LAS, and we charge them enough to make it work. Our INTL expansion is being copied by Gary Kelly (via ATA maybe someday) because that is where the money is----places where the dollar is cheaper.

And, your stews are getting older and fatter too. A friend of mine recently flew on one of your flights and said one of the stews was very large and corpulent (an SAT word for FAT). And I am sure your stews are soooo much fun on their last leg of the day, their sixth or so. Yeah, they are a blast...

Go to LBB and enjoy it. I won't have to, I will go to Grand Cayman on Delta's dime.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Congrats on your critical acclaim. What a very expensive experiment you guys discovered - Delta customers actually wanted to receive what actually had made delta successful in the first place.

You should have asked me - I would have only charged Delta a $5 million consulting fee. I then could have had a nice dinner and bought forks for our passengers to use at home in their trailer parks.

Also, congats on shedding your mismanaged $13 billion debt on the backs of your own coworkers and your creditors (and all of their employees and families). You are now stronger for it - you should be proud.

Soon you can start another mismanaged airline within an airline designed especially for you. You can fly only 787s to and from Paris with Direct TV, Fresh live Maine Lobsters, and Evian Water all in the cockpit. You can even issue more stock that will later be declared worthless to buy gold forks for you and your captain...

BK was painful, but we have come out even stronger. We did lose the pension, but thanks to the high claim sale, most of the creditors got a lot more than usual for their debts. UAL gave their creditors 24 cents on the dollar, and most of ours went at over 60 cents, primarily because we have a better plan. OUr non pilot workforce did not lose their pension (note USAir's did), and our retired pilots got a claim in BK worth $880 million, and the PBGC who insured their pensions was pretty much paid in full, so there is talk that most of the retired guys will still get a lot of what they were owed. Yes, there were some layoffs, and some furloughs, and most have come back or were offered new jobs now. The best thing we did shed was our lame brain past management. Our new management actually got rid of that $13 billion in debt, which is amazing since UAL still has $19 billion in debt. We also have focus and obviously some people think we will do well (read Barron's article again).

It's ok if you are jealous. I understand you love your company but hate to go to work because you finish each trip exhausted. Hey, atleast you are paid well (thanks to our old pay rates), and you still have the 1 2 3 rule in LBB. Go get drunk and ride a horse down Main Street. That should be fun! Yahoo!

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Quimby]

BK was painful, but we have come out even stronger. We did lose the pension, but thanks to the high claim sale, most of the creditors got a lot more than usual for their debts. UAL gave their creditors 24 cents on the dollar, and most of ours went at over 60 cents, primarily because we have a better plan. OUr non pilot workforce did not lose their pension (note USAir's did), and our retired pilots got a claim in BK worth $880 million, and the PBGC who insured their pensions was pretty much paid in full, so there is talk that most of the retired guys will still get a lot of what they were owed. Yes, there were some layoffs, and some furloughs, and most have come back or were offered new jobs now. The best thing we did shed was our lame brain past management. Our new management actually got rid of that $13 billion in debt, which is amazing since UAL still has $19 billion in debt. We also have focus and obviously some people think we will do well (read Barron's article again).

It's ok if you are jealous. I understand you love your company but hate to go to work because you finish each trip exhausted. Hey, atleast you are paid well (thanks to our old pay rates), and you still have the 1 2 3 rule in LBB. Go get drunk and ride a horse down Main Street. That should be fun! Yahoo!

Bye Bye--General Lee

Would you be happy if someone paid 60% of what they owed you?

 

[igneousy2]

duplicate

 

[igneousy2]

What makes Southwest so special now after the fuel hedges are running out and when the legacies cost structures have dropped significantly.

I will say it again, Southwest stands for cheap tickets and the best deals in the country. However, Southwest has realized that it can no longer offer that and make record profits. Therefore, they are forced to look at other business models like code-sharing and upping their service which are never part of their traditional way of doing their business. They have also started flying to crappy airports like PHL and SFO.

So what makes Southwest so different compared to others now except they don't offer first class? Why would someone take a flight from Houston to Baltimore/Washington D.C on them. I'd bet you money Continental fares are at least competive or might be even cheaper, with plenty of non-stop options to 3 airports in DC area. Southwest may even make a stop or two along the way. Now, Continental may operate those flights at a loss with that kind of fares, but it has some ability to make it up with international revenue. What could Southwest do with the loss at that point? Also, a large portion of the consumers will continue to run to Orbitz, Priceline and Travelocity for better deals where Southwest does not participate, a part of harsh industry wide reality of not being able to charge the consumers more to fly.

Also, by the way, whoever came out and said Swan Song was doing well overrall and Delta smartly pulled out is clearly delusional. Song was one of the dummest things Delta has done in it's history.

What makes SWA different from other airlines is that they are willing to adjust their business model as the industry changes. What a concept. This is nothing new, SWA has changed along the way and everytime it changed, people claimed the sky was falling for SWA but SWA just keeps plodding along, racking up profitable year after profitable year.

In the last quarter, even if you exclude the fuel hedge...SWA still made money. Not everybody did.

I keep hearing that the majors/legacy carriers have caught-up to SWA in cost...simply not true. The gap has narrowed...but they have not caught up.

These are the CASM-ex-fuel numbers from the last quarter.

6.68 - LUV
7.8 - ALK
7.06 - DAL
7.91 - UAL
10.56 - CAL

 

[General Lee]

Would you be happy if someone paid 60% of what they owed you?

Compared to the previous BK (UAL's) of only 24 cents? Yes........And most of the creditors got a lot more than 60 cents on the dollar.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

What makes SWA different from other airlines is that they are willing to adjust their business model as the industry changes. What a concept. This is nothing new, SWA has changed along the way and everytime it changed, people claimed the sky was falling for SWA but SWA just keeps plodding along, racking up profitable year after profitable year.

In the last quarter, even if you exclude the fuel hedge...SWA still made money. Not everybody did.

I keep hearing that the majors/legacy carriers have caught-up to SWA in cost...simply not true. The gap has narrowed...but they have not caught up.

These are the CASM-ex-fuel numbers from the last quarter.

6.68 - LUV
7.8 - ALK
7.06 - DAL
7.91 - UAL
10.56 - CAL

Why would Gary Kelly be looking at INTL code shares? He is worried about higher fuel, higher expenses (workers salaries), and more LCC competition.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Whataburger]

most of the creditors got a lot more than usual for their debts. UAL gave their creditors 24 cents on the dollar, and most of ours went at over 60 cents, primarily because we have a better plan.
Bye Bye--General Lee

Seriously? If I pay 60% of my mortgage this month, how would the bank feel? I think this goes back to the "F+" theory. Your company gave the hard working companies that trusted DAL 60% of what yall promised them.

We might fly little baby airplanes vs your 767 or have to eat Whataburger vs your Zebra, but I am proud to know that my company was founded on integrity. If SWA promises me or someone else something, they will deliver........100%.

 

[bugchaser]

Our new management actually got rid of that $13 billion in debt

You guys keep spouting off about how you all have reduced costs and cut debt. All this has been done on the backs of employees and by not meeting obligations to creditors and vendors. Bankruptcy has become a legalized form of theft. It's amazing to me that anyone can seem proud that their company screwed creditors out of 40% of what was owed them. That says a lot about you and your company. It's OK to just F*** people over as long as we do it less than the other guys. Even with all that welfare help, your costs are still higher. I assume all you guys want to get pay rates back up, right? There is nowhere for your costs to go but up. WN is an efficient operation and no legacy will ever get their costs down to that level. And whatever happens to costs, I believe that management at WN will meet their obligations. Thats why I'll be happy to enjoy my overnight in Lubbock, Midland, or wherever they send me.

 

[skiandsurf]

but I am proud to know that my company was founded on integrity. If SWA promises me or someone else something, they will deliver........100%.

For a company that is so penny concious, they still send birthday cards to the employees. Well I dont even work there and I got a birthday card from them. It was a nice touch (that went straight into the trash can), but I just wonder how much money they spend sending out hundreds of cards every day.

 

[B727Driver]

SWA will continue to be successful after the hedges run out for one BIG reason: the legacy carrier labor groups will demand a piece of the profit pie, just like mgmt has done by rewarding themselves for a job well done (thru their rose colored glasses). APA wants 30%+ and when one pilot group gets some $$ back, other will follow....so much for the post BK low cost structure. Labor costs will rise and the cycle will continue. SWA, in my opinion, will be just fine.

 

[B727Driver]

Oh, just to clarify, I hope labor groups get their share of the profits, we have given up far too much and we deserve our just rewards.

 

[Whataburger]

.......but I just wonder how much money they spend sending out hundreds of cards every day.

We have a Department in Dallas specifically tasked with sending out cards, etc. for Births, Deaths, Birthdays. etc.

Your question shoud be: How much return are they getting on thier investment??

ie. Send me a BD, Christmas, and Valentines day card = approx a couple bucks or less.
The return: I break my neck for the company 3-4 days a week saving fuel, carrying strollers, kissing babies, shaking hands, thanking the customer, and picking up extra time = Priceless.

P.S. The Valentines day card had a $150 check in it this year.

 

[General Lee]

Seriously? If I pay 60% of my mortgage this month, how would the bank feel? I think this goes back to the "F+" theory. Your company gave the hard working companies that trusted DAL 60% of what yall promised them.

We might fly little baby airplanes vs your 767 or have to eat Whataburger vs your Zebra, but I am proud to know that my company was founded on integrity. If SWA promises me or someone else something, they will deliver........100%.

As usual, you are missing the point. Yes, our company got into BK, which is bad, but every company and citizen in this country is allowed to do that without getting shot, which is something you obviously favor, you commie.

Your company is now searching for new revenue opportunities because Gary Kelly knows soon he won't be able to afford your pilot and stew salaries, especially with the fuel hedges dwindling and LCCs popping up everywhere. Expect a concessionary contract coming up here. But hey, atleast you can afford LBB, even with a paycut. I would bid a lot of LBB and MAF if I were you. Lucky dog!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

SWA will continue to be successful after the hedges run out for one BIG reason: the legacy carrier labor groups will demand a piece of the profit pie, just like mgmt has done by rewarding themselves for a job well done (thru their rose colored glasses). APA wants 30%+ and when one pilot group gets some $$ back, other will follow....so much for the post BK low cost structure. Labor costs will rise and the cycle will continue. SWA, in my opinion, will be just fine.

It doesn't help when Airline management takes huge bonuses either. That can absolutely fuel the fire. I think we all ask for huge chunks (like AA pilots asking for a 30% raise), expecting to get something in between. You can't get everything back in one contract, it usually takes a couple or a few. But, you can stop the downward trend. Something that can stop the upward movement? Another 9-11 type event, and we all hope that doesn't happen again. Sharing in the profits would be a good thing, for everyone at the company. They should lead by example, and not take a bonus when the company does poorly and everyone else has to sacrifice.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[B727Driver]

Getting something in between is a good start and your are right, we cannot get it all back in one chunk. As I stated, labor costs will go up as we negotiate contracts and with SWA cost structure and efficiency in their way of doing business, 36+ years of know how with 35+ yrs of profits is nothing to down SWA on. SWA has found ways to keep what was promised, via contracts with labor, and spent $$ to make $$ (hedging). They never hid behind BK to pull the rug out from their commitments with leasing companies and labor. Also, research the compensation packages of SWA upper mgmt with the 'legacy' carrier mgmt group. Shameful what legacy mgmt has done. All of us could take a red pen and slash wages, benefits, leases..... and pat ourselves on the back with huge bonuses. Time to kick 'em back.