It's 12:01, where is UAL?

[El Pobre]

Is anyone else angry about this? I spent years at a @#*&% regional just hoping for that brass ring of a nice major airline job. Now that the majors are hiring I am looking at pay wages so low that I haven't made that little money since I was a Beech 1900 FO. Between eating savings and not puting as much into a 401k, it will take 5+ years to even think about getting back to where I am now. I am pretty angry about that fact.

Am I alone in this?

Hmmm...let's think about this... Some regionals start paying their FO's $19/hr most FO pays top out between $35-$45 after 10 years. A ten year Captain tops out around $70-80. Yet...there is no shortage of people willing (and even eager) to fly for those wages...just like you were. Nothing personal here...stick with me.

I remember about 2 years ago jumpseating on a regional airline. The Capt and FO (super nice guys both) were talking about how excited they were about the current expansion going on at the airline and how it was enabling them to move up in seniority quickly. I asked them why was the expansion so fast (when seemingly everyone else was cutting back) and they said they didn't know. I said " is alot of it coming from XXX (mainline carrier?)" and the Captain said, and I quote "I don't care that's not my problem." That sort of ended the conversation there, since I was a most gracious jumpseater and didn't feel that it was polite to point out how someday it might be his problem.

The point is that much of the downward trend in pilots salaries at the mainlines has come from the competition and the outsourcing done to the regionals, which compete by offering lower salaries to all employees across the board.

I wonder if now that Captain that I flew with is like you going...."What the heck...were did that brass ring go?" Well the point is...it is his problem now.

I have advocated for a while that ALPA set a minimum wage for all airlines....IE- No FO for any carrier represented by ALPA will fly for less than what the lowest paid full time TSA agent makes. It's a quantifiable number and most pax that I fly with are amazed (actually astounded might be a better word) when I tell them that the FO probably makes alot less then the super professional TSA agent that waved them through the security checkpoint.

I think it's becuse they aren't all that impressed with the TSA bubbas and procedures and they would like to think that they are in better hands when they are airborne.

Anyhow, my point is, that until we bring up the payscales at the lower part of the industry, you will not find your brass ring anytime soon at a major passenger carrier. I suspect that UAL will have NO PROBLEM filling thier vacancies with eager pilots willing to fly at thier current rates with no pension etc.

OK fire back now....but remember...economics is economics. Oh yeah, and the good news is you now have an extra five years to look for that ring.

 

[27 driver]

Hmmm...let's think about this... Some regionals start paying their FO's $19/hr most FO pays top out between $35-$45 after 10 years. A ten year Captain tops out around $70-80. Yet...there is no shortage of people willing (and even eager) to fly for those wages...just like you were. Nothing personal here...stick with me.

I remember about 2 years ago jumpseating on a regional airline. The Capt and FO (super nice guys both) were talking about how excited they were about the current expansion going on at the airline and how it was enabling them to move up in seniority quickly. I asked them why was the expansion so fast (when seemingly everyone else was cutting back) and they said they didn't know. I said " is alot of it coming from XXX (mainline carrier?)" and the Captain said, and I quote "I don't care that's not my problem." That sort of ended the conversation there, since I was a most gracious jumpseater and didn't feel that it was polite to point out how someday it might be his problem.

The point is that much of the downward trend in pilots salaries at the mainlines has come from the competition and the outsourcing done to the regionals, which compete by offering lower salaries to all employees across the board.

I wonder if now that Captain that I flew with is like you going...."What the heck...were did that brass ring go?" Well the point is...it is his problem now.

I have advocated for a while that ALPA set a minimum wage for all airlines....IE- No FO for any carrier represented by ALPA will fly for less than what the lowest paid full time TSA agent makes. It's a quantifiable number and most pax that I fly with are amazed (actually astounded might be a better word) when I tell them that the FO probably makes alot less then the super professional TSA agent that waved them through the security checkpoint.

I think it's becuse they aren't all that impressed with the TSA bubbas and procedures and they would like to think that they are in better hands when they are airborne.

Anyhow, my point is, that until we bring up the payscales at the lower part of the industry, you will not find your brass ring anytime soon at a major passenger carrier. I suspect that UAL will have NO PROBLEM filling thier vacancies with eager pilots willing to fly at thier current rates with no pension etc.

OK fire back now....but remember...economics is economics. Oh yeah, and the good news is you now have an extra five years to look for that ring.

Well said man. I just don't ever see it happening. As you stated, there will always be the younger kids out there that need that coveted turbine time and will do anything to get it, up to and including paying for a job. Management knows this and will exploit it as long as they can. As you said, economics.

 

[Marko Ramius]

I know I'm preaching to the peanut gallery here, but get real. The starting wages at most majors outside of WN, FX, and UPS stink-and UPS just got theirs raised. However the starting wages are in line with what they were when the world fell apart 6 years ago when everybody and their mama was making the move/sacrifice to go to the majors. Sucks that the starting wages didn't keep up with inflation, but the rates at the regionals haven't either. The whole, 'I can't afford or am unwilling to go to a major' theory is largely steeped in the notion that the regionals and even the LCC's are stable gigs. Only one new entrant has lasted 20 years post-deregulation, so the odds are that current group will end up on the scrap pile too. The regionals have always been an up and down gig, whose livelihoods are married to the very carriers that people come on here to denigrate. There is no way you could even make a 10 year career let alone a 30 year career at regional without looking at whipsaw's/downsizing, alter-ego's and other assorted falling outs. It wasn't that long ago that carriers like ACA & Mesaba were considered rocks in this business. Who would have thunk that Air Wis would be nowhere near Wisconsin and having to buy their business along with Chautaqua/Republic/Shuttle/Whoever else I missed? Comair, ASA, it goes on. SkyWest and Xjet seem up now, but they too will have their day. It's the nature of the business when you have someone else's name on the side of your jet and can't overcome the barriers to entry to do something substantial on your own.

The majors certainly aren't without their problems, but they've been here before wage wise and they've gotten money back because they have had greater leverage over time than the regionals. The future problem won't be dramatically different in that vein, except that the ceiling for everybody might get hurt by cabotage but you still know where the best/highest paying jobs will ultimately be in the airline side of this business. In the end these jobs will be snapped up by highly qualified people, some civilian types and some mil types who want out of the service, live near one of the bases, can see a brighter future, and who will bump their incomes with mil leave until the next contract rounds are up. And people here will still be complaining about United and the fill in the blank company of the day. Commence flame.

 

[stlflyguy]

Anyhow, my point is, that until we bring up the payscales at the lower part of the industry, you will not find your brass ring anytime soon at a major passenger carrier. I suspect that UAL will have NO PROBLEM filling thier vacancies with eager pilots willing to fly at thier current rates with no pension etc.

You're absolutely right. And ALPA will never embrace this idea. They'll just say "Well, we need to raise the bar from the top and watch it trickle down."

It's ashame we have to reach DOWN to the bar now.

stlflyguy

 

[skykid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by skykid
Great - keep the myth alive! Walk into their ORD ops today and you will see 95% white males, most have an ex-military look to them.


Is that the stick up the ass look?
__________________

Yes, that is a great way to describe it. If you are in this business long enough you can tell which branch of service within 30 seconds of meeting someone. For example, Coasties usually seem kind of effeminate.

 

[skykid]

Right on, Bubba! It's time we stick it to the man!
Oh wait, you ARE The Man! So I guess you're just sticking it to yourself.....HA, that's rich!

Crashpad, try to make some kind of connection with your response to the post. Another good idea is not to post when you are drunk or really tired.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I think a lot will stay where they are vs: UAL/NWA/USAir.

From another website:

...word around the DEN training center (called "TK" by UA peeps) is that there were only 600 apps after the first 3 days - they were expecting 3000+.
[/QUOTE]

cliff
LRD

 

[SoCentralRain]

Hi!

I think a lot will stay where they are vs: UAL/NWA/USAir.

From another website:

...word around the DEN training center (called "TK" by UA peeps) is that there were only 600 apps after the first 3 days - they were expecting 3000+.
[/QUOTE]

cliff
LRD

Hey Cliff,

HI!

Now, would you stop posting this on every thread that mentions UAL? You've made your point, Paul Revere.

Now, go outside and admire your car.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I didn't get it. I was in MCI about 6 months ago, and the CEO said to buy it. I was going to drive it home. Then, the co. got us a trip out of there, so we flew home. Then, on my next set of days off I was going to buy it, but my CEO changed her mind. And, my airport car actually was running well.

Now, we probably won't buy the Fit now. We'll hold out for a plug in hybrid, what with oil being over $100/barrel by Xmas (gas at $4???).

I will actually buy the Chevy Volt, which is due out in 2010, if that's the only plug-in available by then.

cliff
LRD

PS-I'm either going to apply first thing Mon at NWA, or shoot myself. I'm trying to decide which would be less painful!