It Occurs to Me About Mesa

[SanJuanPlebe]

Say,

Maybe someone can set me straight.....

Isn't Mesa the ONLY airline that has settled a new contract POST September 11, 2001 that doesn't include concessions?

Remember now, no matter how low or unsatisfactory you think it was, Mesa pilots achieved advancements in every single area of their contract except minimum bid guarantee...which stayed the same. Weren't all other contracts post 9-11 concessionary? And before you flame them about "bringing down the industry" isn't an advancement better than a concession? And before you blame Mesa, weren't most concessions granted pre Mesa contract TA? (Except Air Whiskey, ACA, Skywest)

Is this information correct?

Flame on.... Oh, and let's leave out the rhetoric and emotion....A healthy and educated debate please.

The Plebe

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Flame on.... Oh, and let's leave out the rhetoric and emotion....A healthy and educated debate please.
The Plebe [/B]

Then there really ain't sh1t else to say!!!!!

WD.

 

[46Driver]

No offense, but how could your contract get any worse - there is no where to go down when you are already at the bottom.....

Please correct the following items that are rumored:

1) MESA only gets 8 days off for reserve (10 for a lineholder) per bid period (I understand a bid period is a 28 day cycle at MESA).

2) "A day off" is considered any 24 hour period, i.e. from 14:00 Tuesday to 14:01 Wednesday is considered a day off - is that really true.

3) If a flight is cnx for wx or maintenance, you don't get paid?

4) What is your commuter policy?

5) Finally, I am curious to hear your payscales....

 

[climbhappy]

san juan,

the mesa bashing is tired ,overworn and pointless.

you're just pouring fuel on the fire after your original wildly written, maniacal post.

i suggest lots of yard work, followed by several beers accompanied with your favorite rock nroll!

 

[Bluestreaker]

No offense, but how could your contract get any worse - there is no where to go down when you are already at the bottom.....

Please correct the following items that are rumored:

1) MESA only gets 8 days off for reserve (10 for a lineholder) per bid period (I understand a bid period is a 28 day cycle at MESA).

2) "A day off" is considered any 24 hour period, i.e. from 14:00 Tuesday to 14:01 Wednesday is considered a day off - is that really true.

3) If a flight is cnx for wx or maintenance, you don't get paid?

4) What is your commuter policy?

5) Finally, I am curious to hear your payscales....

Preach on!!!
Mesa couldnt give consesions cause they had nothing to give up.

 

[trainerjet]

And all the losers on here can now point at someone else to blame for their own shortcomings. Must make you feel like a big man when you have to point fingers at the perceived failings of others to make you look good.

Eh, WD? What happened when it was YOUR turn in the barrel? Oh, that's right. Instead of "shutting the f*cker down", you all caved, too. Yeah, big man indeed.

The FACTS are there is NO ONE to blame for whatever sh!t you find yourself in except YOURSELF. The sooner you grow up to realize and accept this, the sooner you will, in fact, grow up.

 

[Sphincter Boy]

Well I for one haven't seen a single Mesa guy on here that voted yes. You should ask for a recount.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Eh, WD? What happened when it was YOUR turn in the barrel? Oh, that's right. Instead of "shutting the f*cker down", you all caved, too. Yeah, big man indeed.

Ahhh Yes, one can always count on trainerjet to put his foot in his mouth and swallow all the way up to the knee!!! The fact that the company I work for whose pilots (some pilots) voted the way they did shows that there are many who would rather put on the uniform then to actually be treated as SKILLED LABOR!! I voted no and was proud of it. I made statements on this forum with respect to mesa lowering the standard based on our own contract negotiations and the unity that came from that. Now I have to wonder if they ever would have walked in the first place to secure a better contract in 01. In any case I really don't give a flying F.U.C.K. about that or mesa I just thought is was a funny reply to a stupid post, you on the other hand seem to always find ways to not only start a fight but keep it going as well, sure sounds like 12yr old littl girl stuff too me.

WD.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Calling trainerjet 12 old little girl stuff, give us all a break. You talk more sh!t then anybody on this board. Trainerjet makes a valid point you guys caved, so you have no opinion no matter what you voted.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Stop kissing his A$$!!!!!!

WD.

 

[46Driver]

Are any of the rumors concerning your contract true that I asked about earlier?

 

[surplus1]

46Driver,

Go to www.airlinepilotcontracts.com/Contracts/index.htm

There you can download the 2003 Mesa PWA and read the details for yourself. Enjoy


As most of us know, 3 large regionals associated with UAL made concessionary agreements post MESA. Apparently all of these pilot groups were intent on screwing themselves to "save their United code share." They did a good job of it.

ARW with the "best" regional contract in town got what for doing it? The potential privilege of UAL pilots on their list. Will their own pilots relinquish seniority and pay for that privilege. Most likely.

SKYW, agreed to fly jets up to 99 seats for the same rates they had for 50-seat jets. That was brilliant. They got a UAL agreement that they would have gotten anyway. So far the only reward they seem to have reaped, is a potential bunch of UAL pilots on their list. Pilots that will be paid more than regular SKYW pilots for the same job and who knows what else that we haven't learned yet. The SKYW pilots (writing in these forums) claim that they are not giving up any seniority. Really? How is that possible when pilots from another airline will be sitting in 70-seat jets, while SKYW pilots are still flying Brasilias? Stange view of seniority in Utah.

ACA agreed to concessions that so far have not resulted in any "deal" with UAL. Granted the concessions are stayed until there IS a deal, which may never happen. If it does happen, then they too will have to figure out how to deal with UAL's J4J. Then we'll find out what they have to give up for the privilege of UAL pilots on their list.

Whose the big winner? ALPA! They have managed to establish that mainline pilots who find themselves in trouble, now have a "right" to claim whatever regional jobs they can take. In the case of the USAG subsidiaries, Mesa, TSA and CHQ, the regional pilots will abrogate their seniority and their pay to put U pilots in their Captain seats. At the others, the left seat wont be available, but seniority will take a hit and pay will be higher for the UAL mainline pilots doing the same job.

As someone born long before me once said, "There's a sucker born everyday."

This is a soap opera and "As the World Turns" comes to mind. When it does turn and IF airlines like U and UAL survive, we'll see how many regional pilots will get preferential placement and higher pay at those carriers.

Sorry, I got carried away. I forgot that the ALG, PDT and PSA pilots will gain the great privilege of a flow-through to Mid Atlantic Airlines, the ALPA created subsidiary at USAG. Such a thrill. I guess that makes it OK to steal their seniority. The ALG and PDT guys haven't got their 1st "jet" yet, so they will be most thrilled of all. Incredible.

 

[SanJuanPlebe]

Yeah, You're Right

It's true...I write some of the posts I do to stir the pot intentionally. It's amusing to me to watch some of the responses and be truly amazed how people can justify and dictate to others how to run their life/airline/etc.

A couple of points that have been brought up...some intentional, some accidental that people don't realize they are making. My favorites are:

Unity=we all need it, we can't get it, and things won't change a whole lot until we do. Pilots by nature are very financially greedy and we preach a lot of unity, but when it comes down to it, this business is a dog eat dog game.

Accountability= well all need it, some don't think it applies to them. For example, I was happy for Comair with their new contract. I helped with their strike. I donated cash to the pilot fund. And I could make the choice to be employed by them and enjoy that contract. But you won't see me complaining about another carrier's contract that I don't work for. It's not my business. I will however, work to help bring unity to their property through ALPA work or whatever means I can.

Standards= They are established for pilots by the FAA. We should have something for contracts. I know ALPA must approve each contract, but each one is based on a particular carriers status (which is appropriate) and sometimes, as with financially ailing carriers, that means a sub-par agreement. Big picture says people are working and that funds dues...however, sometimes, as DW says, it creates a "race to the bottom" and allows the weak to continue to survive. A master agreement, similar to what the Teamsters has come to mind. But I don't think it will happen...see my previous comments on unity.

Professionalism= I'm pretty disappointed on how unprofessional many (including myself at times) can get on this board. The one thing we have going for us as pilots is that we should and must act professional, safe, and stick together. Rather than be mad at Mesa, SKYW or others that took concessions, be mad at managment and force them to manage the company efficiently in order to maximize profits/jobs. And this jumpseat war stuff is unprofessional. Denying a guy/gal a ride home to see their kids or a ride to work is just plane lame and wrong.....

If you want to blame pilots that hurt us...if you really need to point the finger at someone rather than yourself, blame folks that cross a picket line, or folks that undermine negotiations and hurt the collective bargaining effort. But don't bash a group that has a contract, no matter how bad it is compared to yours or how much of a concession they had to take....

That's all I'm really trying to say with my "maniacal" posts......

 

[CRJ Driver]

ARW with the "best" regional contract in town got what for doing it? The potential privilege of UAL pilots on their list. Will their own pilots relinquish seniority and pay for that privilege. Most likely.

THAT WILL "NEVER" HAPPEN. Its apperent you know nothing about ARW so, SHUT YOUR PIE HOLE.

 

[FL000]

Sorry if I repeat, but I didn't read all of the replies.

Your example is analogous to saying that ASA has the best recent performance since our on-time is up 50%. Well, when you start at 50% on-time to begin with, that's not saying a whole lot. We're still 17 of 17.

 

[bogberto]

Had a U Captain in the jumpseat a few weeks back. He brought up an interesting, yet very obvious, point:

Why the he!! are any of us taking concessions and crappy contracts while EVERY carrier is still in a fare war, trying to provide coast-to-coast tickets for Greyhound fare?

Re-regulation, anyone?

 

[ArcticFlier]

"SKYW, agreed to fly jets up to 99 seats for the same rates they had for 50-seat jets. That was brilliant. They got a UAL agreement that they would have gotten anyway. So far the only reward they seem to have reaped, is a potential bunch of UAL pilots on their list. Pilots that will be paid more than regular SKYW pilots for the same job and who knows what else that we haven't learned yet. The SKYW pilots (writing in these forums) claim that they are not giving up any seniority. Really? How is that possible when pilots from another airline will be sitting in 70-seat jets, while SKYW pilots are still flying Brasilias? Stange view of seniority in Utah."

Just to clear things up.....................Nothing has been agreed to between UAL/UALPA and SKYW. The agreement thus far is btween UAL and UALPA. Consolidate your defecation before you pontificate.

AF


P.S. I'm not happy about this by any stretch, but it ain't in stone, yet. Also, I know you used the word 'potential' in your post, but I just wanted to keep the record straight.

 

[145EXR]

Isn't Mesa the ONLY airline that has settled a new contract POST September 11, 2001 that doesn't include concessions?


you forgot to add that most of those concessionary contracts have more days off, better pay, and better workrules than the one you supposedly "improved" on.

 

[SanJuanPlebe]

If Mesa's Contract is SOOOO bad...

Then aren't you glad you work at a better shop? Don't worry about what's going on at Mesa...worry about yourself and your contract.

You'll never keep up with the Jones.....best advice...worry about yourself and your family. You'll live longer.

 

[CRJ Driver]

Isn't Mesa the ONLY airline that has settled a new contract POST September 11, 2001 that doesn't include concessions?


you forgot to add that most of those concessionary contracts have more days off, better pay, and better workrules than the one you supposedly "improved" on.

ARE YOU FU$KING KIDDING ME! YOU CALL THAT A CONTRACT. 8 days off off rsv and 10 for line holders.
WHAT A JOKE.
AND SEGMENT PAY!!!!!!!!!!! YOUR STUPID!!!!!!!!!