Is this training contract legal?

[Chick Pilot]

I need some advise to figure out if I should be worrying about this:



I worked for a management company for 2 1/2 years and right after I received my second type-rating with them, they asked me to do something I felt was completely unsafe. Because of their reaction to me bringing this safety issue up, I decided to quit. I did not want my name to be dragged through the mud because of leaving right after a type-rating so I told them I would be available to fly for them on a contract basis and even work two times a month for free as long as I am current in the airplane (13 months). I also told them that I would pay them $1000 a month if I were not available to fly at least 2 times a month. Keep in mind that this airplane was up for sale as soon as they received it, the same day I finished training... so I figured it would be sold soon. So during a 1-hour meeting (3 weeks after I finished training) I signed a 1 page handwritten note that stated I would pay them $1000 a month check or $1000 credit from pilot services for the following 13 months or until the aircraft is no longer managed by them.



Now after following this "contract" for five months, the company decides to ground the airplane unless they have a serious prospective buyer. So it has been sitting in the hangar for two months and now they want me to start paying them the $1000 a month. The only reason I agreed to this was so that they were not left without a qualified pilot when they needed one, so I have refused to pay... unless the airplane is flying.



Does anyone now if this handwritten contract is legally binding? I am concerned they will send this to collections and ruin my credit and also leave me a bad reference with future employers.

 

[Flywrite]

Sounds like you should have had an attorney look over the contract. The next best thing is calling an employment law attorney now.

 

[Yank McCobb]

You don't need an attorney for something this blatently cut and dried. Every time they contact you regarding payment, just fart in their general direction.

Eventually, they'll get the message.

 

[HMR]

You decided to quit because they were unsafe but then offered to keep flying for them? You worked there for 2.5 years but quit over a single safety issue? If the safety issue was that serious I think you have every right to walk away with the type rating free and clear. Your decision to pay them $1,000/month is...um...unique. They're the ones that messed up. Why are you so willing to pay?

The Astra/G200 community is small. I don't think you'd have trouble at an interview if you said you walked out over a safety issue. That's to be commended.

I'd get an attorney to look over the "contract". It might not be worth the paper it's printed on.

 

[Chick Pilot]

The safety issue, to me was pretty big. It delt with the way we were going to operate the aircraft on a regular bases. Of course, as with any charter company, there were other issues... but the managements reaction to this issue is what topped it all off and led me to quit. The reason I agreed to pay was to show that I had good intentions on being available for them. I realized that if I did find "the perfect job" then I probably would end up having to pay them... assuming they were still flying the airplane. Now, I am no longer willing to pay.

 

[Midnight Mike]

This is something that I picked up after working for a Japanese company for "5" years:



Yes is a contract

No is handshake

Anything that is said verbally is get the hell out of there, I never said that.

Sounds like you fall between yes & no...

 

[Reelbigfish]

It's worth getting a lawyer. From past experience I know that even some typed up, lawyer written, contracts aren't legal or enforceable. There has to be consideration on both sides, and just from what you are telling us here, I don't see the consideration that are giving in exchange for what you gave them.

 

[soarby007]

This is something that I picked up after working for a Japanese company for "5" years:



Yes is a contract

No is handshake

Anything that is said verbally is get the hell out of there, I never said that.

Sounds like you fall between yes & no...

I love that one.

 

[say again]

Why would you offer to pay them money in the first place? You left for safety reasons. You didn't use them to get the type. I understand the part of leaving and not wanting "your name dragged through the mud", but you didn't sign a contract saying you would stay (at least I don't think you did). I would have put in my notice and walked.

As for your contract, does it say you will fly or available to fly 2 times a month? It's not your fault they decided to park the plane. How about the other a/c in their fleet? Maybe you could fly those to til you get things squared away. Anyway, like everyone else said, you should have an aviation lawyer take a look at it. Best of luck to you. I hope it works out for the best.

 

[Hung Start]

Not a lawyer, but have been through a couple of battles over time. My take would be that you did sign a contract, with free will. It would be looked upon as a binding contract. But,,,, if the company by its own free will grounds the plane and has nothing for you to use to honor your end of the contract,, well,,,, tough luck for them. I'd send a letter letting the power that be know you are willing to honor your end,, they need to honor theirs and provide you with the plane.

Of course, consulting a lawyer wouldn't hurt, but this advice is free!

Good luck, and remember, opinions are like a**holes,,, everybody has one!

 

[Bandit60]

I guess my question is why did you get into a contract in the first place. If they required one before you got your type that is one thing, but it sounds as if you signed this after you go the type. If this is what happened then maybe you should pay up. That will teach you to sign a contract after the fact.

I had one employeer tell me one time that I had to sign a contract 2 months after I already got my type. I told them no way. They had no recourse in this case. It ended up working out in my favor.

 

[Tina Fey's Scar]

Just dont sign it. Don't take shortcuts.

 

[Chick Pilot]

Well some of us still have morals and when a company spends $34000 on my training I feel obligated to give them something in return for their investment.

 

[avbug]

How are you current for 13 months under 135? Are you acting only as SIC, and counting a grace month?

Be more specific in your question. You ask in generalities, and expect an answer, that cannot be given.

You've been counselled to contact an attorney. You should do nothing less.

For some of us, a handshake is still a contract. Paper decays. A handshake is eternal.

As for your description of your "contract," (a term to be used loosely, here), you stipulated that you would be available to fly twice a month. You did not agree to fly twice a month, correct? If you are still available twice a month, are you not honoring your end of the contract? Wherein do you then pay? Further, what provisions were made in the "contract" you signed for sale of the airplane? Surely both you, and the employer thought about this in advance?

Why did you keep flying the airplane when you quit for safety reasons? This tells me that you were either foolish to continue flying for the company, or didn't have a valid reason for quitting. Which is it?

so I told them I would be available to fly for them on a contract basis and even work two times a month for free as long as I am current in the airplane (13 months).

So I told them I'd fly for free...you surely do go out of your way to engender feelings of sympathy. I'm not impressed. Not in the least.

If the aircraft is grounded, can the company still be said to be "managing" it?

 

[say again]

If you feel "obligated" then pay it back. I wouldn't. It has nothing to do with morals. If they wanted something in return for their investment, they would have had you sign a contract before you left for training. It sounds like they are trying to "screw" you over. If the plane is parked are they really still "managing" it? What's the difference between selling and parking an airplane as it pertains to you? It's either flying or not. This is something that you have no control over. They are trying to take advantage of the situation.

 

[slowto250]

Ha! Such a loyal employee. They would have no problem firing you in a heart beat if they found out you were breathing their air.

Front runner, for post of the year. LMAO !!

 

[spngbobsqrpilot]

Well some of us still have morals and when a company spends $34000 on my training I feel obligated to give them something in return for their investment.

Well they took your ability to "repay" away when they parked the a/c.

It's easy to raise the price of the used a/c the amount needed to recoup your training costs. (As if they haven't already done that.)

$34,000 seems high for training costs on an Astra. If that is correct it amounts to 0.62 % of a $5.5 million selling price. And that's not even discounting the amount you say you have reimbursed to date. Put another way, if financing a $5,500,000 at 9.9 % over 15 years the payment is $58767.26. Add in that $34,000 to the selling price and the payment goes up a whopping $367.29 to $59130.55. How far can the new owner get on $367.29 of Jet-A?

Additionally you stated that "I also told them that I would pay them $1000 a month if I were not available to fly at least 2 times a month."

I think it's already been pointed out.... you were (are) AVAILABLE. Further, your contract did not specify that credit would be given ONLY flying the Astra. So if the management company has other aircraft (and does any repositioning under part 91) you were / are AVAILABLE to act as SIC (after the requisite part 61 SIC training) then you have fulfilled the "Available" to fly for the management company requirement of your contract.

If they decide to train you under part 61 to be able to act as SIC (Don't be unAVAILABLE to do so or you will be violating the contract as you state) just don't sign another agreement. Let them decide if its worth spending the money to train you to act as SIC on another one of their managed aircraft, fly under part 91 reposition / owner flights only, and airline you back (one way last minute fares) so that they can get their "pilot services" on these flights only.


Or you can just tell them to pound sand. That's what I would do.

 

[fr8dogfo]

Chick Pilot,

Even if you didnt specify it in the agreement, its easy to see that your "intent" was to be available for 2 trips a month or else pay. As sombody else mentioned its not your fault they parked the airplane, Im assuming you're still available should they decide to start flying it again. I wouldnt worry about it and I wouldnt be writing any checks either.

Anyway, if you can shell out a grand a month because you thought it was the right thing to do, you shouldnt have any problem paying an attorney to straighten this out and get you out of the agreement all together. And THATS EXACTLY what I would do.

Good Luck, Keep us posted.

 

[Chick Pilot]

Well sorry I didn't make things more clear, but it is a long story. The training was done in the G-200, not the Astra. The G-200 is the only airplane they have that I am qualified in, they have plenty of pilots for their other aircraft.

As for your description of your "contract," (a term to be used loosely, here), you stipulated that you would be available to fly twice a month. You did not agree to fly twice a month, correct? If you are still available twice a month, are you not honoring your end of the contract? Wherein do you then pay? Further, what provisions were made in the "contract" you signed for sale of the airplane? Surely both you, and the employer thought about this in advance?

Why did you keep flying the airplane when you quit for safety reasons? This tells me that you were either foolish to continue flying for the company, or didn't have a valid reason for quitting. Which is it?

So I told them I'd fly for free...you surely do go out of your way to engender feelings of sympathy. I'm not impressed. Not in the least.

In response to Avbugs questions, the stipulation of the company no longer managing the aircraft also covers the aircraft being sold - they own it. I agreed to continue flying the aircraft as long as I did not have to fly it under the condition for which the safety issue came up and not as an employee of the company... they had another pilot willing to do that. I am not looking for any sympathy, just some good advise.

I have found another full-time position, so if they now need a pilot I will not be available. I have told "the power that be" that if they need a pilot and I am not available I will hold up my end of the agreement, but for the time the aircraft just sits in the hangar, I do not agree to pay.

Thanks for everyones help, I appreciate some of the good advise. I have not had to contact a lawyer yet, but I have done some research for if and when I do need to.

 

[HMR]

Hmmm. G-200 and safety issue? Was it weight and balance or runway requirements?

 

[Ty Webb]

I would send them a certified letter, short and to the point, stating that you remain available to fly the aircraft, as per your agreement; however, it is your understanding that the aircraft is not presently being operated. Therefore, you request that they inform you in writing when your services will again be required. I would keep the tone brief, but cordial.

If they respond to it with a "demand" letter demanding payment, then I would get an attorney, but I wouldn't spend the money on an attorney until they spend money on an attorney, which they probably will not do unless you p!ss them off. Of course, if they make the aircraft available to you to fly and you cannot, you will have to pay them for that trip, as per your agreement.

As for them "dinging" your credit rating- that's very unlikely, that would open another can of worms about their improper use of your social security number (furnished for employment purposes only) and they would have to be a merchant that reports data to the credit bureaus in the first place, in order to even have a mechanism to report this history.

If they threaten to do that, though, I would change posture immediately, and send them a cautionary letter stating very clearly that if they transmit any libelous statements to any third parties that you will instruct your attorney to vigorously enforce your rights and to seek restitution for any damages you have suffered.

I am not a lawyer, but I have had to deal with a fair number of dirtbags . . . . so far, I am 3 for three in court. . . . It is always best to work things out without lawyers, but every once in a while, it's just not possible.

Good luck. Maybe our board's very own Bobbysamd could give you his opinion- he's a paralegal and may have some insight into the matter.

Good luck.

 

[WhiteCloud]

This is really clear to me. If it's not safe to work there then don't. If it's safe to work there then keep working there and excercise your perogative to cancel flights when the situation warrants. If they push just tell them they can fire you and fire the next guy too and may end up in a smoking hole somewhere. Don't continue to be a weenie. Take a real stand.