Is this really true?

[roobyroo]

I had a frac (135) pilot tell me something while we were sharing a table in sfo. i didn't really accept it as accurate, but after reading the regs, i can see how it might happen. so, i'm curious...does this happen, and is it going to be changed.....

rest requirements. crew starts their duty day at 0700, gets into xyz at 1600. crew is good for 14 hours duty per far and company, so they are required to answer the phone or be available until 2100. no enjoying the city or even a beer. then, if the company doesn't call them, their rest started at 1600, and they can be assigned duty at 0200 potentially, since they have had the required 10 hours rest.

is this possible?? can a pilot really be getting "rest" if they don't know they are on a "rest period"? it seems the company is taking advantage on both ends of the duty and rest requirements. isn't there something in the regs that defines a "rest period" as being free from responsibilitiy to work? i see it under a 135 f/a regualtion, but not for pilots.

i'm curious, because it doesn't seem logical. and if you're reading this Bill, my apologies for doubting you! thanks in advance for any knowledge, insights, or opinions.

 

[ProFracPilot]

crew starts their duty day at 0700, gets into xyz at 1600. crew is good for 14 hours duty per far and company, so they are required to answer the phone or be available until 2100. no enjoying the city or even a beer. then, if the company doesn't call them, their rest started at 1600, and they can be assigned duty at 0200 potentially, since they have had the required 10 hours rest.

By definition and numerous interpetations of FAR 135.267, the time this crew is required to be available to answer the phone is considered "Duty". The company cannot legally back the time up and put them in rest starting at 1600. That said, I'm certain there are scumbag 135 operators out there doing this kind of crap. Here's a great explanation.

 

[NJA bound]

That is not the way it is at NetJets, you're theirs for 14 hours, but your rest doesn't start until they shut you down. In your example the crew parked the aircraft at 1600, at NetJets you might be shut down and your rest would start, or you could be kept on call, one or the other but not both.

Some on-demand freight outfits try to play that game, it's not a way to keep pilots.

 

[SAEflyer]

I can tell you from 4 part 135 carriers i worked for before NJA, they ALL did that...Maybe i just had bad luck but it definatley is a common theme

 

[Diesel]

lets say you got in at 1600 at netjets. They would either keep you on hot stby for a total duty day of 14hrs, which means you have a good crew, plane, food and at the fbo. Or they would shut you down and give you a brief for tomorrow. After shutdown the company CAN NOT CONTACT you until your required show time. If they gave you 27hrs off then you are not eligible to be contacted till 27hrs not 10. This is where our contract is much more stringant than the FAR's.

There are other examples of the company showing the pilots at the fbo with no plane. Without getting into specifics but they either have to A have a plan that is functional within 6 hours. No plan then go to the hotel or start collecting OT. There are a variety of different ways to collect OT and prevent crew rot.

 

[Bongo]

Here's a great explanation.

I'm from Canada so I don't have a full understanding of 135 regs and such, but this explanation that you provided seems to be a pretty good interpretation of the regs. Are you saying this is a scumbag operator type interpretation or a good interpretation, I'm a little unsure.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Are you saying this is a scumbag operator type interpretation or a good interpretation, I'm a little unsure.

My "scumbag operator" comment was not directed towards the operator referenced in the link, but to the type of 135 operator that attempts to circumvent the regs by arbitrarily "backing up" duty times to suit their needs, such as was cited in roobyroo's example.