is this pft? or am i bein over sensativ?

[ruhroa]

I saw this on avcrew this morning. I thought hmmm cool finally a posting for a challenger 604 guy. Then i read it ............. What's this eligable for a grant #$@#$................. so let me get this str8 cl604 experienced most likely with a type rating which cost someone around $30,000.00 or they will take a furlough airline guy who gets a grant for being displaced..................

Nothing against the charter company but ,,,,,,,,,,i see it as PFT....whether they intend it that way or not.........

maybe a little over sensative here but ya know ........... when is it gonna get back to the fair level playing field


Challenger 604 First Officer (FL) 4/02

Large Central Florida FAR 135 Air Carrier/Management company has an immediate opening for a qualified Challenger 604 First Officer. Candidate must be FAR 135 current in the CL-604 or be eligible for a training grant. Salary and benefits commensurate with experience. If qualified, please email VIRUS FREE cover letter and resume directly to employer at [email protected].

 

[Gulfstream 200]

does it matter?

Just sounds like the average $hit Part 135 Florida Job.

One couldn't expect them to train you now..that would be crazy.

 

[Lear70]

I seem to be seeing a LOT of corporate and 135 jobs requiring PFT. What's really disturbing is that you don't see them re-advertised a month or so later no longer requiring the PFT. That means they're being filled by people willing to fork over the cash... I know of a place running Hawkers here in Nashville where this is how they hire - and they're getting people. I find that HIGHLY disturbing in a field where PFT used to be non-existent...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I suppose it is simply supply and demand...

I can see a 20yr old doing this, heck they live with Mom or live in their car - but what I dont understand is when a 30 something guy does this and gets paid next to nothing!! How does one live??

strange.

 

[ruhroa]

I know .........I don't understand it at all........

In my opinion this pft in the 135 ranks was usually limited to those botom feeder types like the outfit in vegas that was doing it for a copilot position on a lear 35 or something small like that. but , now a Challenger604 in my opinion is getting near the top of the corporate food chain of aircraft................. what is disturbing is that these were the jobs that us 135 and corp guys were hoping to get to be our career corp aircraft................. so now it is pft on these........ i suppose next someone will be advertising a pft on a global or g5............ and u know what, for someone that pays for that and gets a year or so of time under there belt they will be able to write there own ticket ................. very upsetting indeed .......

 

[LJDRVR]

I think this all comes down to the inherent cheapness of certain owners/operators. I am constantly amazed at how many freebies folks with money are looking for. They don't want to pay for a management fee. They don't want to pay for crew training. They want a guarantee. The problem occurs when these types of owners meet up with a similarly cheap certificate holder. After all, they do attract each other.

I concede it’s unfair that this makes it possible for folks to bypass the time–honored tradition of working your way up trough the typical bottom feeding 135 operators, living on the pager and flying aircraft that constantly test your abilities in recurrent-sized proportions of in-flight abnormals and emergencies. I guess you can take solace in the fact that these types of owners and operators are not nice places to work, and probably won’t be around long. They are certainly not the jobs you’ve been working towards. As to the pilot or two who happens to find a shortcut into the corporate ranks, I wouldn’t worry too much about that person. They’re probably not going to cost you a job eventually, and they did pay their dues, just in a different way than you did. For example, let’s say pilot A got hired at TWA in 1986, one month after the staple cut-off date. This individual went from major airline Captain to junior FO to furloughed in the space of a few months. Now he’s looking for a position, has WIA benefits, (Which aren’t going to cover the cost of a 604 type) and manages to land the position. After several months, he realizes what a scumbag he’s working for and is able to make the transition into one of the better CL604 jobs out there. Is this really so bad? What would you do in his or her position? (You had the WIA benefits.) Remain unemployed to preserve the sanctity of normal part 135 career progression?

Food for thought.

 

[learjetguy]

recurrent-sized proportions of abnormals and emergencies

My company would resemble that remark

learguy

 

[CaSyndrm]

My available grant is 6,500.00$ am I qualified for that 30K training?

 

[ruhroa]

i am not goin to sit here high and mighty and tell a guy .....hey you stay on unemployment or don't take a job because morally i find what a company is doing is offensive and wrong. Hell if i was in a unique position...ie had a grant i would use it too if nothing was available .......my bitch is and my amazement was that even at the higher levels of aircraft charter/management these %^%$# operators were stooping to in order to save a few dollars on a initial ............... Hell that CL604 rents at nearly 5 k an hour .........................................

 

[bafanguy]

Try being 57 and looking for a job...it's a friggin' jungle and all about money. By the by, what is "WIA" ? How much is it and where does one get it ? Help a clueless early-retired airline guy.

 

[Lear70]

WIA = Workforce Improvement Act

Depending on your state, funds up to several thousand dollars may be available to retrain you and make you more marketable in your current field or another field outside of aviation.

Most states are fairly resistant to pilots, but a few are friendly and you can get the money in most, even if they are adversarial about it by persistence. The most I've heard of is $7,000, average is $3,000 to $4,000, I've heard of some as low as one semester's tuition at a college at in-state rates (around $1,000).

You have to go through your unemployment office in the county/city you live in or were based in (your choice, pick the one that pays more). There's a website usually for each state's unemployment center that sometimes has WIA information, and it's probably been covered here extensively under the search option at the top of the page. If you live in TN I can help...

Good luck!

 

[bafanguy]

Lear70,

Thanks for the info...never heard of it before. It would be a nice way to recover some of the outrageous taxes I've paid those bast***s for the past 35 years.

 

[Lear70]

Lear70,

Thanks for the info...never heard of it before. It would be a nice way to recover some of the outrageous taxes I've paid those bast***s for the past 35 years.

My thoughts exactly!

 

[G100driver]

Help a clueless early-retired airline guy.

bafanguy, who did you work for and why did you retire early to enter this rat race????

Just curious.

 

[Publishers]

happens

A few months back, I advertised for some crew members. We specified that you needed to have a type rating and be current in the aircraft.

We had a large number meeting that requirement. The surprise is all the ones who applied who were willing to go get the ratings at their expense.

The fact is that today if you need a specific pilot, you can get one for the most part ready to go. Why would any employer put someone through initial training unless it was an upgrade of an existing employee.

The fact that someone wants to pay for training to increase their marketability to me is totally up to them.

 

[G100driver]

The fact that someone wants to pay for training to increase their marketability to me is totally up to them.

Thats nice ......

 

[Timebuilder]

The reason this has happened is that there is a high supply of pilots. One reason for this is that when these pilots started flying, the big airline jobs were still relatively plentiful, and the flight instructor-to-regional pipeline was flowing nicely. There was really good pay at the end of the rainbow. For some, even a "pot o' gold."

The way this will change is when young pilots-to-be look at the indutry as it is NOW, not as it is portrayed by pilot mills, and decide against spending $50k to earn a $18k starting salary, with top pay of 1/3 of what we saw just a few years ago.

Just as the jews were forced to make bricks without straw under threat of death from Pharoah, all of the pilots mentioned were willing to pay for their own types in consideration of a job, under threat of death of their careers.

In both cases, it was "totally up to them."

 

[bafanguy]

G100,

Long & boring story...too old to recover from possible effects of industry instability on the retirement. So, took the $$$ and ran. Everyone has his own tolerance for risk...they finally got to mine.

 

[Lear70]

The way this will change is when young pilots-to-be look at the indutry as it is NOW, not as it is portrayed by pilot mills, and decide against spending $50k to earn a $18k starting salary, with top pay of 1/3 of what we saw just a few years ago.

That's the problem, there's no one to tell them the truth at that level. All they're getting is the B.S. hype from their flight schools, universities, or pilot mills that "There are lots of great jobs out there and you'll be an airine pilot in no time making megabucks!" So we're going to end up with a huge glut of instructors out there fighting over what few regional jobs there are out there. I don't know if we'll EVER see the hiring boom of the late 90's in the majors again, especially if the RJ scope clauses keep getting whittled down...

In both cases, it was "totally up to them."

I'm not even going there... reading that post p*ssed me off too much to respond right now, and I try not to lose my temper on here.

 

[G100driver]

Long & boring story...too old to recover from possible effects of industry instability on the retirement. So, took the $$$ and ran. Everyone has his own tolerance for risk...they finally got to mine

Banafan, good luck and hang in there. I was just curious.