Is This Legal?

[777-2H4]

My basic question is, is it legal for a private pilot to go fly a plane like a Cessna 172 and take pictures out the window for a fee that he would charge a client? i.e. "aerial photography"? Or does that require a Comm. license?

Now, if it is not legal, are there creative ways of getting around it? Not to be skirting the law, but who would know what we're doing up there in the plane? And who's to say that I'm not simply taking photographs for my own pleasure? I suppose that if I actually did take flying lessons to get my PPL I would meet other students who would like to be able to log some time, so what if I took one of them up and gave them the plane during the time I took the photograph?

Bruce

 

[MFRskyknight]

I suppose that if I actually did take flying lessons to get my PPL I would meet other students who would like to be able to log some time, so what if I took one of them up and gave them the plane during the time I took the photograph?

From the way you phrased this (ie, "other students"), it implies you are thinking of taking students up while you yourself are a student pilot. In that case it's non-loggable time for either of you, as it would be illegal in the first place.

As a private pilot, while you could take a student up and show them the ropes, they couldn't log the time as you're not an instructor.

The whole taking pictures for a fee as a non-commercial pilot and finding ways to skirt it sounds like a slippery slope to me, but I feel unqualified to answer either yay or nay. I'll let someone else handle that one.

MFR

 

[skiandsurf]

My basic question is, is it legal for a private pilot to go fly a plane like a Cessna 172 and take pictures out the window for a fee that he would charge a client? i.e. "aerial photography"? Or does that require a Comm. license?

Its been a few years since I have studied those regs, but here is my take on it...you are a private pilot flying around taking pictures. Not a problem. You sell these pictures, not a problem. You are not taking money for the flying, taking someone or something up in the air. You are getting paid for a picture that you took. I say "go ahead", of course after you get a final word from the local FSDO.

>>> the real problem would be from the PPT union. (Profesional Picture Takers). Do they have a chat room like this?

 

[777-2H4]

MFR, I forgot about that point. I would not take any student up unless I had a PPL, and like you said they can't log it anyway even if I had a PPL but not be an instructor. Perhaps I should re-phrase that....as a PPL, I could take another PPL with me. Everyone wants to get hours, right?

skiandsurf, why would the Professional Aerial Photographers Association (PAPA) have a problem with it? Its a free country...I could pay their fee to be a member...or not, and still do photography.

I know that PPL-holders cannot take people or cargo up for compensation but I wondered about aerial photography because you are using the aircraft and flying skills in order to create something (a picture) at the request of someone who is, in effect, paying you for your time. Or does that matter? Does it make a difference if the person who pays me remains on the ground or is with me in the plane? I don't know.

 

[wt219200]

My basic question is, is it legal for a private pilot to go fly a plane like a Cessna 172 and take pictures out the window for a fee that he would charge a client? i.e. "aerial photography"? Or does that require a Comm. license?

Now, if it is not legal, are there creative ways of getting around it? Not to be skirting the law, but who would know what we're doing up there in the plane? And who's to say that I'm not simply taking photographs for my own pleasure? I suppose that if I actually did take flying lessons to get my PPL I would meet other students who would like to be able to log some time, so what if I took one of them up and gave them the plane during the time I took the photograph?

Bruce

Sounds illegal to me no matter how you put it. Pro Rata share for the plane would be a good place to start, are you paying for the plane or is your "Client"?

 

[midlifeflyer]

IMO The business of aerial photography generally requires a commercial pilot certificate. The airplane is not really incidental to the business. What you (generally) don't need is a Part 135 certificate.

As for ways of "getting away with it," I'll leave that to you, although I'd recommend that you keep in mind that the grey area between what is private and what is commercial is, IMO, =intentionally= grey so that the FAA can go after folks who thought they could outsmart the intent of the regs.

 

[flyinag02]

My basic question is, is it legal for a private pilot to go fly a plane like a Cessna 172 and take pictures out the window for a fee that he would charge a client? i.e. "aerial photography"? Or does that require a Comm. license?

Sure you can do it. You might even be able to reason out why you do not think it is a commercial opperation. Is it legal? My vote is absolutely not. Sounds like you would be "for compensation or hire, acting as pilot in command of an aircraft".

 

[777-2H4]

Sounds illegal to me no matter how you put it. Pro Rata share for the plane would be a good place to start, are you paying for the plane or is your "Client"?

Does it make a difference whether I pay for the plane or the client does as to whether its legal or not?

 

[Learsforsale]

Does it make a difference whether I pay for the plane or the client does as to whether its legal or not?

Yes it does, you have to pay at least half if you are taking someone up.

Are you trying to make money through aerial photography? Or just find a way to offset the cost.

Either way you may run into a couple of problems:
1. There is the whole "legal" thing that has already been addressed.
2. If you are renting a plane from a flight school, you may not want to mention the fact that you are going up with the intent of aerial phography. Many schools offer that as a professional service and they may not want to rent you a plane so you can undercut them.
3. You also have to consider actually taking the pictures while flying. Usually when you do photo flights you are low, slow and circling. Not the time to be messing with the veiwfinder trying to square up the perfect shot.
4. Drawing attention to yourself. Unless you are taking pictures of a rural or suburban area, you may draw unwanted attention to yourself. One of our instructors was doing a routine photo flight over the Inner Harbor in Baltimore and the controller informed him that there had been mulitple calls to the police about a low flying aircraft buzzing the city.

 

[777-2H4]

Yes, my intention was to make money. I have been considering how I can make money by flying, without working for an airline, and I love photography especially having to do with aviation. So I've been reading up on aerial photography. It seems that a lot of people who do it don't want to give advice to someone new, its hard to find sources of advice online. I even tried a couple of photography forums but nobody has anything to share. There are a couple guys who sell "how-to" DVD sets saying that you could make $10k working only part time and that sounds like a get-rich-quick scam to sell more DVDs. THere aren't any aerial photographers listed in my town so I don't know if that's because there's just no demand for it or there is a demand and potential clients have to call a photographer in from a nearby big city (I don't live in a big city).