Is this Employment contract legal?

[No_Desk_Jobs]

Here's the brief version of my story.
I was hired over the telephone to fly charter and freight for an out of state company. I moved to the new state, started working for the company, and just before I took my Part 135 checkride the chief pilot produced a training contract which stated that if I don't stay there a year I have to reimburse the company for training expenses.
I signed the contract, found a better job in six months and left the company. The company has since been trying to get the money from me and has sent the bill to a collections agency.
I should have refused to sign the contract in the first place but I didn't know I would get the opportunity to move on so quickly and I didn't think the contract was enforceable anyhow.
Does anyone have any experience in a similar situation? Should I be contacting a lawyer?
Any input would be much appreciated.

 

[Snakum]

Should I be contacting a lawyer?

No. You should be calling the INTEGRITY store to see if they'll sell you a bucket full.

Minh

 

[ATL2CDG]

Unfortunately, if you signed it, you're bound to the stipulations contained therein.

Is it the nicest or most ethical thing for the company to do? Probably not. But given that you knew the content of the document and signed it, the fact that you disapproved doesn't mean anything.

As they say, "A contract's a contract, stupid."

 

[mattpilot]

uhm... any company that does not ask for their training costs back if you leave early has got issues.

I don't know what you trained on, but think about it. If you trained on a 737 (i know you didn't but its an example), the company paid roughly 20k for your training. So now you left 6 months later and the company has to find someone else again and train them for 20k. What if he leaves after 1 month? I guess the company is out another 20k, huh? Usually if you are not trained on type, they factor in the training costs with a reduced salary, over a given period of time - in your case 1 year. If you stayed one year, the company figures they got their training costs back by paying you less.

It is only fair that you pay them back their fair share. If you stayed 6 months, pay them back half (in accordance with your contract of course). Besides, if you don't, your just making the job situation so much worse for everyone else. This company might not trust another new pilot and require all future hires to have time on type. Well i guess now someone has to pay for his own training thanks to you!

 

[cynic]

First of all, it depends on what state you are in.

Second of all, probably not. It was a non-negotialble contract.

I offer you a job. You move here. On day one I say you have to sign this contract which says you will wrestle howler monkys in the nude every day for an hour and pay me 1 million dollars if you quit. You sign and then leave.

It was a non-negotiable contract. You didn't have a choice when you signed it. Its not enforceable or legal.

If however, before you moved and when I offered the job I said this contract goes with it, then it would have been negotiable and enforceable.

 

[C601]

Its probably on your credit too, so unless you pay it it will stay there.

I curious to know before you started in the classroom training why it was never brought to your attention.

And another point, if they had of told over the phone that you had to sign a 1 year training contract, would you of ?

 

[CDVdriver]

Ok interesting.......
In all fairness, I think you should offer to pay half, you did work there for 6 months. However you have a way out since they did not show up with any contract (and I'm assuming here) they did not tell you about any contract before you moved. You were basically lured into signing since you had done all training already.
Kind of a strange way of doing things.
Now mind you I'm no lawyer....you could have walked also....

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Im all for keeping your word..

But if it went down like you SAY it did (?) - them springing this contract on you AFTER you moved and trained....F'EM. I would tell them to eat $hit. You were stuck, you already laid out too much cash and time to go back...and they knew it, hence the trick.

but if you did know about it, stick to your word. The job sounded GREAT until a better one came along...

This story just sounds a little bit fishy...???

 

[cynic]

I am a super genius.... listen to me. Well maybe I'm not a SUPER genius, but I did just take a class on contract law.

A contract in non-negotiable when you can not negotiate or refuse it.
For example.... I work for Bob's widgets. I just moved and today is my first day. I just bought a house. I need to make my payment, buy food and pay my utility bill. CEO bob says, sign this contract right now or you are fired.

Bob did not mention that before I took the job, thus I was FORCED to sign or loose my house, not eat, whatever.... I couldn't just quit.

Its NOT an enforceable contract. I was a dirty trick to pull. I would bet one million dollars the contract would not hold up in court. I know it will not hold up!

When the collection agency calls, tell them you have the money to pay but you will not pay it, it is not a legal contract. They will need to take you to court if they'd like you to pay, then hang up. Then hire a lawyer if they do.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Anyone who remembers the early 90's when everyone was pay for training knows that these types of things are unenforceable. If you're worried about your credit call a lawyer. Probably worth the couple of phone calls he/she will make to get them off your back.

 

[efiscompmon]

Over in my little toilet bowl of aviation, SHUTTLE AMERICA, they have found a way around it by making you sign a contract whereby they "loan" you the money for training--and it stands up in Indiana, whre you sign it.

I know of one of our pilots who was bit by it for $9k--and that is even after they furloughed him. They made his class sign new contracts when they were recalled. Classy, eh?

I walked out of ground school at Colgan as a Beech street captain when they changed the terms of their "contract" in the middle of school. Yeah these people are scum, but there are other jobs. You would not buy a car, lease an apartment, or whatever under those circumstances.

When pilots are willing to stop being man-whores for the "honor" of piloting, these things will die out or at least be relegated to the real desperados. Next time call their bluff--he already trained you, he doesn't want to lose you!

 

[bobbysamd]

Training contracts

Should I be contacting a lawyer?

No. You should be calling the INTEGRITY store to see if they'll sell you a bucket full.

I agree. It used to be that a man's/woman's word was his/her bond. On the other hand, not being told beforehand that you would have to sign a contract, pulling up stakes and moving, and arriving only to have a contract sprung on you, under pressure of an impending initial 135 ride, is duress, and one more form of BOHICA pilots endure. For that reason alone and notwithstanding the better opportunity, I don't blame you for leaving the company. It's still only a job and, as stated above, there are other jobs.

There are two wrongs here. The duress of the company pushing the contract under your nose with you facing a 135 ride and you leaving before the contract terms were up. Maybe a lawyer can help negotiate an accord and satisfaction of the contract. Good post by Cynic, above.

 

[Checknsix]

I agree with cynic.

My understanding is, if they do not tell you in advance, that you will be signing a training contract....after you have already quit your other job and moved, that you are now signing a contract "under duress." You made sacrifices to take their job.

Personally, I would pay a few bucks for a lawyer and consider trying for damages if they messed up my credit report. You will even have a bigger case it they held any portion of your paycheck in lieu of some unpaid training contract....that is a big no-no. One of my students ended up with a large judgement against a previous employer for doing that.

Good luck. You might find a good $100 letter from an attorney will make this all go away.

- Checknsix

 

[310]

Spill all the beans... what company is this and where.. so others will know about their tricks.

 

[ZDC ATC]

Look into the Railway Labor Act. I seem to remember that if your position is non-unionized, it is illegal for the company to force you to sign a training contract of this type without having a federal mediator present. If it gets too sticky, have a laywer look up previous cases where the precidence has been set. That might cost you more than the pro-rated training so either way....

 

[midlifeflyer]

I am a super genius.... listen to me. Well maybe I'm not a SUPER genius, but I did just take a class on contract law.

So? At what level? Keep in mind that a class on contract law that's not part of a law school curriculum has one purpose: to teach you just enough so that you'll recognize when you need a lawyer. Lawyers love folks who think otherwise - the trouble they get themselves into tends to generate some pretty good fees.

No_Desk_Jobs. There's nothing wrong with an organization trying to recoup it's training costs if someone leaves early. On the other hand, giving you the job, having you pull up stakes and moving and =then= hitting you with the terms is a bit sleazy. I wouldn't not presume to give you specific advice on whether, given the laws and the spin on the laws in your state, the sleaze factor is enough to make it enforceable or not, or easily settleable or not. If you have the AOPA Legal Plan, call for a referral. If not, it's probably worth your while to spend an hour with a lawyer who knows these kinds of issues and get some =real= advice.

 

[Resume Writer]

The problem I see with this scenario is proving "when" you were told about the employment contract. It is a he said/he said situation in my opinion. The burden of proof will be on you. The only other avenue I would say you have is if you can get others at the company to testify that they had the same thing happen to them. You will probably not be very successful in this venture because they will not want to lose their jobs. See if you can find former employees that have been in this situation.

As others have mentioned, I would contact a contract law attorney and see if you can negotiate a settlement. The problem with just telling them that you will not pay is it is now on your credit report. When you go to get hired at another company and they pull your credit report, there will be questions. It will be tough to justify why you left and the potential employer will not trust you to sign a contact with them.

As I said under another post some time ago, you can always put the initials S.U.D. after your name when you sign a contract - Signed Under Duress. It may or may not work in court, but it is worth a shot.

Here is the legal definition of duress as defined in criminal law.

DURESS - Restraint or danger, actually inflicted or impending, which is sufficient in severity or apprehension to deprive a person of free choice, destroy his volition, or obtain consent only in form.

I would definitely speak to an attorney - you have nothing to lose but a few dollars and everything to gain if you can get out of the contract.

Kathy

 

[SF3CA]

My story:

I worked for a marginal freight company that made me sign a 1 year, $2500 training contract. I quit six months later for Eagle. They told me to cough it up and I said "whatever". One month later the company sold the note to a local "mom and pop" collection agency and they tried to tack on a $1000 collection fee. The harrassed me an so on and threatened to "ruin my credit". I talked to a lawyer and he said offer them $100 bucks a month. He said $3500 bucks is not worth hiring lawyers, taking time off to go to court, and risk possibily turning into a $5000-$7000 mess. Also if they cash your $50 or $100 check, they are accepting your payments and they know that a judge would say that you are making an effort to pay. It pisses collection agency off because now they are having to wait 2 to 3 years to get all their money. Well in my case, the "mom and pop" collection agency stopped cashing my checks about 9 months later, and after some investigation I found out they went out of business. I never sent them another cent.

Now listen to what Eagle did to me. I turned in my two weeks notice and dropped a 4 trip the same day. Well the way the pay system worked there (two weeks to a month behind) Eagle over paid me by $800. They sent me a notice saying that if I did not repay them they would send it to collections. I told them to take it out of my sick accout (which was approximately $5,000 because I had only called in sick twice in 6 years). They said "no way, pay us". If I had just called in sick instead of dropping the trip I would not had to find $800 buck while I was on training pay. That's what being honest gets you with AMR.

SF3CA

 

[flyifrvfr]

What it comes down to is that he had a choice to walk away and sign nothing. The fact that he moved and was not told about the contract means nothing. The choice was sign the contract and abide by its terms, or walk away from the contract with no job and nothing owed. There is no such thing as required to sign a contract merely by the definition, it is an agreement. By signing the agreement, you are promising to abide by the terms therein.

I know that there is a such thing as durress, but if you look at it in a legal standpoint, you would have lost nothing, except the job offer, by not signing. After saying all of this, I must tell you that I am not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

 

[mattpilot]

... but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express

hahahaha .. why didn't i think of that ?