Is this asking too much of the student?

[BoDEAN]

Students have about 15-25 hours, did their first solo in the traffic pattern. Now I am prepping them to get me out to the practice area, show me the basic maneuvers (not PTS standards, but know how to at least do the maneuvers) ... and by maneuvers I mean Stalls, Slow Flight, Steep turns, Sim Eng Failures, Ground Ref. We have a Flight Ops Manual that spells out in detail how to do every maneuver by how the flight school wants it. I preach to all my students to read up on each lesson PRIOR to showing up so they have a basic understanding of what is expected, and the basic knowledge of the steps for each maneuver.

Well I've had a couple students who are getting ready for this "Stage 1" check have no clue or rememberance on how to do a maneuver. Today, I asked a student to show me a power on stall, and he missed the clearing turns, put full flaps in, lost about 500 ft altitude, and I just let him go about his business wondering what he was doing. In the debrief, I hammered him saying that he is at the point now where he is expected to know how to do each maneuver (I am not saying within PTS standards, but know the steps involved on how to do the maneuvers). Is this asking too much? I don't want to baby the students. They are college students FYI.

 

[Ralgha]

Nope, not asking too much. They gotta put some of their own effort into it, you're not there to spoon feed them.

 

[Goose Egg]

Today, I asked a student to show me a power on stall, and he missed the clearing turns, put full flaps in, lost about 500 ft altitude...

Yup, sounds about normal. Sure, students should be more talented/fastidious/calm/precise, but we all know that it just doesn't work like that. Some guys are just better at flying than others. I used to think that I was a crappy student until I became an instructor and saw what a real crappy student was like. I must've been a freakin' prodigy!

Some students will suck, but the trick is not to let it affect your identity as a pilot and instructor. It's a choice they are making, not a reflection on you. Once you accept that students make choices independent of your instruction, it becomes pretty easy to tolerate poor flying. Which is not to say that we shouldn't do everything we can within our instructional capabilities to help them--that's our job, after all--but we shouldn't beat ourselves up when it doesn't take. Flying is difficult, and not everyone will make it. That's a fact.

-Goose

 

[flyer172r]

By the time they hit 20 hours, they should definitely know the basics of how to do each maneuver. Although it's possible that they got so caught up in learning how to land that the other maneuvers were mentally pushed aside to the point where they couldn't perform the way they had been. I had that happen with a student a while ago, after a couple flights it was fine.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

I would not say what you are experiencing with these students is out of the ordinary. Some will of course be better than others. I've had a couple who were great at doing those maneuvers at solo time and others that needed their hand held some. I was always more concerned with their ability to recognize and correct mistakes when they were ready to solo. Typically right in the 15-25 hour range. If they could takeoff, fly a decent pattern and correct their pattern mistakes and land, they solo'd! Being able to do a good S-Turn doesn't mean a darn thing about whether someone is ready to solo. Being able to know that the downwind to base turn was steep to medium and if they got blown away from the base leg to add power and hold altitude was far more important in my estimation.

If you haven't signed someone off for the solo yet, it's a lot of fun to see the look on their faces after the first landing. And probably the look on yours too!!

Mr. I.

 

[BoDEAN]

If you haven't signed someone off for the solo yet, it's a lot of fun to see the look on their faces after the first landing. And probably the look on yours too!!

Mr. I.

It is a great feeling. I've had many solo and have a 90% pass rate on the 10 people I've signed off for their checkride. But I am now teaching college students and having their head fully in the game, and the challange at hand, is a lot different than the 30-40-50 yr old's I use to teach =) Then again, I am only 27 lol.

 

[wrxpilot]

I agree.. it's def not asking too much of someone to at least know the freakin' manuver. You can't fly it if you don't even know it... however I would say use that time in the airplane (after the fook it up) to correct them and drive the point home. At least a once through correctly, then make them go home and chair fly the sh1t out of it.

My CFI had me purchase a book called "Visualized Flight Maneuvers for High Wing Aircraft". It's that little blue book you've probably seen in the pilot shop before. Anyway, early on when I was expected to know the maneuvers (around 15-20 hrs) he had me review the book, chair fly, and describe what we'd be doing on the ground before we went. This probably helped quite a bit w/ knowing what to do once in the air. BTW, I'm around the same age (27) as you and your students and agree they should be rather self sufficient by now. Hope that helps...

 

[Zulu]

You're definitely not expecting too much. Here's a technique that I used when CFIing that seemed to work pretty well getting my students to study up for their flights: First, I'd assigne "homework" for the next flight, telling them what we were doing on the next flight and what they needed to study. Then, during the preflight briefing, I'd quiz them over their homework. If they couldn't talk me through the appropriate maneuvers, then I'd just extend the briefing, teaching them what they should have studied and cutting into their flight time. It's amazing the affect on study habits of a student when he spends an entire two hour "flight lesson" at the briefing table. Same pay for the instructor, but hits the student in the wallet -- usually a good motivator.

Z

 

[WMUSIGPI]

did you go back to teach at the alma mater?