Is this 135 or 91?

[JediNein]

Greetings,
I've been asked to fly a T210 by a fellow that also happens to own a Fortune 500 company. His name is on the aircraft's registration certificate. His name is on the corporate certificate under owner, founder, CEO, president, and so on.

He wants me to fly various employees of the company all over creation in furtherance of their business, and also for their vacations, etc.

I'm only providing pilot services, not the airplane.
He's providing the airplane to his company and getting paid by the company for the use of the aircraft through accounting I don't want to understand.

Can I fly non-employees in the plane with or without employees on board to their various destinations?

What reference or AC or FAR or NBAA documents can y'all refer me to that would have this information?

Thanks!
Jedi Nein

 

[mmmdonut]

1. Is it incidental to business?

2. Are the passengers paying for travel?

 

[JediNein]

This is in furtherance of business, conducting biz meetings all over the state.

Passengers are not paying for it.

Thanks ...

 

[falconpilot]

I wouldn't worry about it all that much.... You are responsible for getting from point A to point B safely... Maybe the boss just lets people use his plane... I mean the passengers aren't handing you a check when they get off the plane are they? I wouldn't sweat it, unless you know for sure that he is charging people by the hour for the aircraft or something like that... Its not 135 its 134 1/2.

 

[Diesel]

Sounds part 91 to me.

They aren't paying him that you know of. He might be offering them use of the plane as a perk.

See no evil, hear no evil....

 

[gear_guy]

Fortune 500 and a T210? That is outside the norm. Maybe he is one of those crazy people who only buys what he can afford to pay for. I say go for it if you think you'll be happy. Congrats

 

[UGAflyer]

well the 500 company doesn't own the airplane, the ceo of 500 company owns the plane...and the ceo is being paid for use of his airplane by the 500 company...that's the way i read it. That seems like it might be in that gray area. Is that the way you guys read it and still think that it is fine?

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Call your local FSDO and ask them.

 

[flyer172r]

To me it sounds like this is part 91. He owns the airplane, you mentioned he's listed as the company's owner, sounds ok to me.

 

[2000flyer]

Maybe he's the owner and leasing the plane back to his company. Been done many times before. Some company owners own more than one company. If he's leasing it back to his company, it's 91.

 

[HMR]

Jedi-
When I was a CFI, one of my students hired me to fly him and his employees all over the Southwest for business and vacations in a T210. I had the same 91/135 question. Before I could get an answer from my FSDO he decided to put me on his company's payroll and call me the company pilot. Maybe you could work out a similar deal?

It turned out to be a great job. I made more flying the T210 one day a week than I did flying King Airs 24/7 Pt. 135. I was let go (with a very generous "Thank You" check) when the company was sold. Since then, the owner and I have become best friends.

Good Luck!

 

[G100driver]

Call your local FSDO and ask them.

Careful, you might open up a huge can of worms depending on the inspector. Remember, they are not here to help.

If you want to talk to the Feds, call the local FSDO 5 states from you.

 

[English]

Jedi-
When I was a CFI, one of my students hired me to fly him and his employees all over the Southwest for business and vacations in a T210. I had the same 91/135 question. Before I could get an answer from my FSDO he decided to put me on his company's payroll and call me the company pilot. Maybe you could work out a similar deal?

Good advice.

 

[guido411]

Careful, you might open up a huge can of worms depending on the inspector. Remember, they are not here to help.

Good advice, why give them any reason to look into it? It's not your airplane, you don't pay the owner, he pays you (commpercial pilot privelage). The passengers aren't paying you, the owner is, if he says it's for business it's not your job to investigate whether he's lying about it. Just make sure you've told him the rules and he says it's for business. If you get ramped, you show them the documents, tell them you're part 91, and tell them to have a nice day. they ask you who owns the airplane? You tell them your boss does. If they ask who you're flying, you say his employees (they ARE epmplyees right?) If he asks any more questions, you tell him that is all you know, he pays you to fly his aiplane for his business. If he has any more questions on business practices have him call the owner and have a nice day.

Just remember, the way you've made it sound to us it's part 91. But if you're bending the truth at all, then it's probably 134.5. If your conscience tells you it's illegal, then it probably is.

 

[jj21211]

Yeah, that's it! Call the FAA!

 

[JediNein]

Thanks all for the comments so far.

His lawyers are typing a letter stating that he owns the plane, the pax are employees, and the pax are not paying for the flight.

I would say he has at least as many lawyers working for him as the local FAA region.

I really am trying to stay clear of "134 1/2". This is why I'm looking for any case law or NTSB O&Os that would make this less of a precedent.

Thanks!
Jedi Nein