Is MPL the solution to the regional's proficiency problems?

[Whydoitry]

Unless minimums are set by an outside force, such as the FAA, hiring minimums will always rise and fall based on supply and demand. When airlines, either major or regional, need pilots to fill their seats they will hire whatever they can get. If manpower planning or whatever they are called at your airline, tells flight operations that they need 100 more pilots then they will find 100 more pilots. No airline management is going to willingly cancel flights because they cannot find quality pilots, instead they lower their standards until they get what they need. This is true at all levels, major, regional, corporate, cfi, etc.

 

[Whydoitry]

posted twice

 

[Ameriagle]

If candidates had a guaranteed spot at a major (after the mentoring session at the regional and provided they performed to standards ) you would get the best of the best and the major could demand that only the best of the best be hired due to the ultimate reward of a job at a major awaiting them.

Not very many folks tooling around in an RJ that took the gig with the hopes that they would be there for a career. In fact most take the job with the expectation that they will move on to a major/legacy...gaurantee or not! I don't see how a guarantee changes that equation. Of course your argument would suggest there is a legacy supported by a regional carrier that would be career worthy. Spend 10 years on furlough with the hopes you might spend the next 20 years of your career in the right seat. Of course there is the chance you may get to spend the twilight years of your career in the left seat, on reserve is some danky crashpad. That is the reality for the majority of the folks who have entered the market in the last 10 years.....and then people wonder about the quality of canidates. By the way....where do the best of the best go these days to get experience without that gaurentee....just wondering!

 

[BornAgainPagan]

MPL will cure the training and proficiency problem at the regionals. MPL should also be a partnership between the regional and it's codeshare major partner. The major should recruit and screen candidates and have the candidate self-sponsor through the MPL program. Then the candidate would serve a period of time at the regional partner airline and be mentored by senior regional captains. When the candidate is seasoned, they would transfer to the mainline and fly mainline jets.

This would be a win-win for both the major and regional airline. The major would get pilots who are hand picked, thouroughly screened and whose entire training would be flying multi-crew jets and be groomed to the standards of the major airline from day one. They would attract the "best of the best"
in candidates, knowing the they will be flying at a major after being mentored at the regionals. The regional would benefit from having the candidate f/o serving his mentoring period at the regional at a reduced rate of pay, knowing that the candidate is only going to be there a short period of time before he moves on to the major partner. The f/o's training and turnover cost would be zero, as the candidate would self sponsor. The regional and the public, would benefit because the captains at the regional would gain experience while mentoring the candidates.

Going through your career with somebody holding your hand does not a pilot make. Where do these "proteges" get PIC time before they get in the left seat? Whatever they do with minimums, I sure hope they require a substantial amount of PIC time before anyone can move to the left seat......fractional, regional or major (or any operation in which an ATP is required of the Captain).

 

[keebird]

...They would attract the "best of the best" in candidates, knowing the they will be flying at a major after being mentored at the regionals.

Only if the airline is paying for everything (ie. KLM or Lufthansa) and is competitive with the military would they get the best of the best.
If candidates are "selfsponsored" they would only attract those with the richest parents and motivated by greed.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

So the senior regional captains should just take the sh*t sandwich and suck it? Their careers have already been kicked in the 'nads many times over, and now you want them to be career flight instructors?

This regional scooter trash captain says "thanks, but no!"

The ONLY way to fix the regional proficiency problem is to eradicate the perception that there is a difference between what a major airline pilot does and what a regional airline pilot does. There should simply be one type of professional flying people around for compensation: an AIRLINE PILOT. As I have told many of my FOs, the professionalism and skill required (and ethically demanded) is the same whether there is 3 people sitting in the back or 300. The only difference is one of magnitude, and I would wager that the families of those who trust their well being to us would agree that the order of magnitude is rather unimportant.

A regional isn't a place to obtain basic skills. That is something best done with the minimum possible risk to the flying public. While I would admit that learning must occur, indeed I learn something everytime I fly, as professionals we have a moral and fiduciary responsibility to operate in the safest manner that is possible. That responsibility presupposes a basic level of technical competency and experience that is not being upheld today. Until we create MORE barriers to entry into the piloting profession (not fewer as would be the case under MPL) we will not be living up to our most important obligation.

 

[Rekks Inbound]

So the senior regional captains should just take the sh*t sandwich and suck it? Their careers have already been kicked in the 'nads many times over, and now you want them to be career flight instructors?

This regional scooter trash captain says "thanks, but no!"

The ONLY way to fix the regional proficiency problem is to eradicate the perception that there is a difference between what a major airline pilot does and what a regional airline pilot does. There should simply be one type of professional flying people around for compensation: an AIRLINE PILOT. As I have told many of my FOs, the professionalism and skill required (and ethically demanded) is the same whether there is 3 people sitting in the back or 300. The only difference is one of magnitude, and I would wager that the families of those who trust their well being to us would agree that the order of magnitude is rather unimportant.

A regional isn't a place to obtain basic skills. That is something best done with the minimum possible risk to the flying public. While I would admit that learning must occur, indeed I learn something everytime I fly, as professionals we have a moral and fiduciary responsibility to operate in the safest manner that is possible. That responsibility presupposes a basic level of technical competency and experience that is not being upheld today. Until we create MORE barriers to entry into the piloting profession (not fewer as would be the case under MPL) we will not be living up to our most important obligation.

AMEN! Very well Said!

Peace.

Rekks

 

[BigPappa]

Lets see, that would mean the"best of the best, cream of the crop", which should exclude most military heavy drivers (buffs, c130s and kc-135s). We all know that the best pick the 15's or 16's and f22's. So there will be a slot for ICEMAN and MAVRICK after all. Then the regional new guys hand picked for the majors. The rest is out, according to your philosophy.

You are on the right track, just have to work on those small details.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

...Too say nothing of the fact that BrownNose's idea ignores the experience gained by the years of safe transportation in challenging conditions that many, many regional captains have provided for their passengers.

I know, I know. Flame bait. I freely admit I chomped down hard.

 

[TheInsider]

Sounds a lot like AB Initio. I'm not against it, but I think pilots will lose the chance to gain a ton of experience by flying freight, cfi'ing, traffic watch, pipeline patrol, and other different jobs that allow a pilot to gain that experience. I am much more in favor of raising hiring minimums to say, 2500tt and 1000 me with 500 pic, or something along those lines. This would force people to get the experience needed. As far as tackling the problem of regionals undercutting and outbidding, there should be a push for the majors to buy up the different regionals and include them in the seniority lists as one company. Think Continental Express, a la mid-late 90s, or Eagle.

The experience gained while reporting traffic and pipeline patrolling is ALMOST useless when it comes to flying in a crew environment. Doesn't do much for instrument skills either.

Too much single-pilot freight ain't the greatest either but probably the best experience one can get flying single-pilot. Great for confidence and instrument skills but bad for procedural skills and not the greatest for cockpit discipline.

Instructing is a great way as far as crew experience goes but lacks the confidence of the single-pilot freight dog.

I say: train the way you will fly. It's a myth that a pilot who is not freight-dogging, instructing, banner-towing etc. won't have the tools required to make command decisions. Everyone will defend their background and experience though.

 

[crj567]

Going through your career with somebody holding your hand does not a pilot make. Where do these "proteges" get PIC time before they get in the left seat? Whatever they do with minimums, I sure hope they require a substantial amount of PIC time before anyone can move to the left seat......fractional, regional or major (or any operation in which an ATP is required of the Captain).

Thank you very much-Yoda...

 

[crj567]

Lets see, that would mean the"best of the best, cream of the crop", which should exclude most military heavy drivers (buffs, c130s and kc-135s). We all know that the best pick the 15's or 16's and f22's. So there will be a slot for ICEMAN and MAVRICK after all. Then the regional new guys hand picked for the majors. The rest is out, according to your philosophy.

You are on the right track, just have to work on those small details.

You must not know very much about the way the Navy selects pilots for different tracks... Do a little reading.

 

[BornAgainPagan]

This message is hidden because the simple minded flame baiter, crj567 is on your ignore list.

Okay, that's much nicer.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

What about doing what you said with the provision that the major can set the standards (college, experience) and require every eligible regional pilot to go through the major's interview and screening process, not just taking every regional pilot regardless of their background? The regionals need to realize that the majors are mostly former military pilots and they will demand a spot on the mainline list for military pilots. If the regionals can come to grips with that reality and realize the the majors will not take every regional pilot without the major setting the standards and screening, then you might have a workable solution.

When are you going to realize that the military doesn't even come close to puting out the amount of pilots needed in the civilian world anymore?
Airlines can't just hire from the military. Half or more of their planes these days would sit uncrewed.
Granted I'd take ex military over someone fresh out of the ATP 0 to hero course but I'd also have no problem flying with someone that went the civilian route and spent a couple years flying at a place like Airnet or flying air ambulance in a Citation or Lear for example.

 

[doh]

My question is: What's the regional captain's carrot to mentor this individual? Are you going to pay this captain instructor pay? You might get some guys interested ifyou pay them 150%. Otherwise the captain will just refuse the guy the first time he dicks it up.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

My question is: What's the regional captain's carrot to mentor this individual? Are you going to pay this captain instructor pay? You might get some guys interested ifyou pay them 150%. Otherwise the captain will just refuse the guy the first time he dicks it up.

How about refusing even before the new guy costs the captian his certificate???

 

[doh]

How about refusing even before the new guy costs the captian his certificate???

Where is the fun in that? I would absolutely love the opportunity to introduce the applicant to malicious compliance!

 

[livin'thesim]

Brown to the bone is an elitist. Elitists always think that they know the only way to do things. I'm sure there are THOUSANDS of regional pilots who are far superior to him when it comes to airmanship.

His views are typical of those who want to point to their breeding instead of their accomplishments. Just like any racial group who thinks that they are genetically superior to another.

If he feels the current crop of regional pilots are that tainted, why isn't he calling for their dismissal?

And while these blessed nazi SS aviator wunderkids he plans to breed are flying with these deficient regional captains, are they not being taught bad habits? And what a CRM nightmare. Why train the 600 hour punk who is going to the majors ahead of you? More elitist thought.

Personally, I smell major insecurity issues with Mr. Bone. Regardless, any plan like his will never be embraced, so why worry?