Is it just me, or....

[K.V.]

Is it just my perception, or are the Phoenix approach controllers the absolute worst to work with when trying to get in and out of a surrounding airport in the Phoenix area?! Although getting into PHX itself has never been big hassle, every time I try to get into any of it’s surrounding airports it never fails… no matter where you are they’ll vector you nearly 60 miles to the south while dropping you to 4000’ and slow you back almost to the shaker, so that they can fly you right up their comfy little transition corridor. And then, when trying to get a release out, I don’t think I’ve ever spent less than 10 or 15 minutes waiting for those jokers to pull their heads out. Now I know they have a decent amount of traffic coming in and out of PHX, especially with a major airline based right there, but come on. I’m based out of an airport in the DAL / FTW area and have never had any problem with approach getting me in or out, and keep in-mind, this is one of the busiest areas in the country. Are Phoenix controllers just unable to deal with high volumes of traffic in a productive and expeditious manner? Or is it just me?

KV

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Never had a problem at KSDL - aside from approach keeping you a little high and all the VFR morons running around..

Also never waited more than a few min's to get out, even when they were busy..

but I only get out there a few times a year..

 

[SenorSpielbergo]

I was just at SDL today, was #3 for runway. Waited no less than 15 min. to get out (many vfr aircraft for bumps and circuits, etc.). Not really the controllers fault, but going in and out of there is always exciting. We had 3 TCAS traffic alerts today alone.

 

[501261]

It’s not really PHX approach’s fault. They do the best they can, but you have to remember there are two big issues that affect SDL.

• PHX airspace is extremely limited since most of the airspace to the west is restricted (actually only an MOA, but generally not usable under IFR) by Luke AFB, the same with the airspace to the East. Add in the mountains and the MOU’s that ATC’ers has to abide by there simply isn’t a whole room to maneuver.
• SDL is for IFR purposes a non-radar environment. SDL is beneath PHX’s Class B airspace. Departures will not be released until the preceding departure is in radar contact (usually at 4000’) and arrivals will not be cleared for an approach until the preceding aircraft has either landed or calls a visual. For operational purposes, it’s almost like operating out of a mountain airport (ASE, EGE, JAC) with regards to ATC spacing.

One final gotcha, make sure you look outside; being IFR does not keep you from colliding with a VFR target. Often times you will get a vector beneath PHX’s Class B airspace and you get “awfully” close to a VFR 172 that is not talking to anyone. One place this is especially prevalent is just south of SDL, over Squaw Peak, there is a VFR transition from East to West (or W to E) at 3500’MSL, that is beneath the Class B and they are not required to talk to anybody. That transition also intersects with the extended centerline of runway 3.

 

[Heavy Set]

Phoenix is blessed with beautiful and clear weather most of the year, so you gotta expect a lot of flight school traffic. You'll see a lot of it out of Deer Valley to the North of PHX and out of SDL. Mesa's Falcon Field also produces a lot of low-skilled, training pilots who make flying around Squaw Peak a bit dicey at times. Watch out for traffic circling over Paradise Valley Mall if you are heading to SDL from the West - I have had a few close encounters there myself - I came too close to a Katana for my comfort a few months back.

Otherwise, SDL is a pretty nice facility despite some long waiting times. You can't beat that weather in February!