Is ATC Allowed To.. ?

[Mach 80]

A clearance is not really a clearance till it is responded to and acknowledged or responded to. Usually if the reversers are still deployed, I don't answer because I can never be sure with all the reverser noise that I heard him correctly anyway. If he has to make two calls - oh well, he has to make two calls.

 

[Nevets]

Maybe I should qualify this further: The FARs say that if you are unable to comply with a clearance, you will let ATC know ASAP. Just do that. Be professional, but the safe operation of your aircraft is your # 1 priority.

A clearance is not really a clearance till it is responded to and acknowledged or responded to.

Some controller's egos don't allow them to understand those facts. Just read my thread on Drift Down Routes for one example.
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=109110

 

[HooverPilot]

In the theme of "Is ATC Allowed To"

Is ATC allowed to tell pilots to squawk standby when working the VFR pattern at a field? I encounter this routinely, but squawk 1200 vice stby.

If I go stby, I lose TCAS and a valuable tool for situational awareness.

 

[atl pilot]

Yes. An example I gave recenetly on go arounds from a visual apch discussed exactly this. The Tower you are working with may not own the overlying airspace. In this case, they will have a LOA (letter of agreement) with some overlying radar control facility (either a center or approach control). Most of these LOAs are very similiar. If they don't want to send you back out for resequencing with that other facility, and keep you closer in the VFR pattern (which really saves you fuel and time), they fequently will have you squawk stanby and remain in their pattern. This mitigates the need for extraneous coordination with the overlying controlling facility. Would you rather reset your xponder to 1200, or simply sqwak standby (I think the latter is simpler for you and less distraction)? The other option is having to go back out and fly possibly another 10 - 15 miles minimum for resequencing. This technique has been utilized at every FAA and contract VFR ATC Tower I've worked at over the past 22 years. Its not uncommon, is fully legal, and is allowed.

Most GA airplanes do not have TCAS or TCAD (although there are more these days and even a year ago). If the loss of your TCAS function is your concern, tell the copntroller and ask if you may squawk VFR instread of standby. I'd say okay if asked. I merely use the standby vs 1200 b/c its easier for you to do. Remember most controllers do not fly and do not understand whats going on in the airplane. If you need something, then ask for it, but let the controller know why, if its something like this. If you just ask to squawkk 1200, I will proabably say no, without the intel you just provided. I do not know of anyone I work with that would deny your request of this, given the knowledge you've just shared.

 

[HooverPilot]

Thanks ATL for the good discussion. My situation is a bit different than normal, this happens when I'm flying Field Carrier Landing Practice flights in a Navy aircraft at a remote field. It does underly neighboring airspace. The TCAS is too valuable of a tool for tracking the (up to 5) other aircraft in the pattern with me. As a squadron, we have decided that we are not going to squawk stby and give it up, and the controllers don't pursue it after we tell them we will be squawking 1200. But they always ask, everytime.

 

[atl pilot]

Is the remote field a military tower or civie?

 

[HooverPilot]

I'm talking about NALF Fentress next to NAS Oceana. Oceana tower "controls" the field, but its untowered, uncontrolled military.

 

[atl pilot]

Since the ATC facility you are referring to is military, why not have your Commander call the Tower Chief and explain your premise. They may be able to make some internal training and SOP additions to enhance safety and your regular procedures. I would be willing to bet they (the ATC facility) just don't realize the wherfores and whatbins of what y'all need!

 

[HooverPilot]

Gotcha, I appreciate the responses! I'll see how it goes tomorrow.

 

[J3guy]

Yes. An example I gave recenetly on go arounds from a visual apch discussed exactly this. The Tower you are working with may not own the overlying airspace. In this case, they will have a LOA (letter of agreement) with some overlying radar control facility (either a center or approach control). Most of these LOAs are very similiar. If they don't want to send you back out for resequencing with that other facility, and keep you closer in the VFR pattern (which really saves you fuel and time), they fequently will have you squawk stanby and remain in their pattern. This mitigates the need for extraneous coordination with the overlying controlling facility. Would you rather reset your xponder to 1200, or simply sqwak standby (I think the latter is simpler for you and less distraction)? The other option is having to go back out and fly possibly another 10 - 15 miles minimum for resequencing. This technique has been utilized at every FAA and contract VFR ATC Tower I've worked at over the past 22 years. Its not uncommon, is fully legal, and is allowed.

Most GA airplanes do not have TCAS or TCAD (although there are more these days and even a year ago). If the loss of your TCAS function is your concern, tell the copntroller and ask if you may squawk VFR instread of standby. I'd say okay if asked. I merely use the standby vs 1200 b/c its easier for you to do. Remember most controllers do not fly and do not understand whats going on in the airplane. If you need something, then ask for it, but let the controller know why, if its something like this. If you just ask to squawkk 1200, I will proabably say no, without the intel you just provided. I do not know of anyone I work with that would deny your request of this, given the knowledge you've just shared.

I would rather squawk 1200 and keep the tcas ability. Alot of GA aircraft have this ability. Also a lot of GA aircraft have transponders with a VFR button. Push it once and your squawking 1200, that simple. Quite often flying into towered airports (class D) I have had some very close calls. Every bit helps.