Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Is ATC Allowed To.. ?

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

dapilot

Active member
Joined
Mar 3, 2003
Posts
25
Is ATC allowed to tell pilots when to turn off the runway while we are touching down (especially in the flare) ? I don't think they are allowed to but repeatedely, I have heard tower (cough Ta cough mpa cough) tell me to turn off at this intersection or that intersection while still rolling out at a high speed! I use my judgement and turn off at first "available" intersection (where no aircraft are head to head with me, etc) when taxi speed is reached as safety, brakes, blown tires and passenger comfort are all my concern being a 121 pilot, NOT them trying to get me off the runway because the aircraft following me is too close or they want to try to get a departure out.

You know the funny thing is one time I was coming in to land and touched down and was told to turn off at an intersection PAST the one I was about to turn off at even though they wanted to get me off the runway ASAP because the guy behind me was 2 miles entrail. Well after they instructed me to take that intersection, I kicked the nose back left, stayed on the runway and kept whatever momentum I had to the intersection instructed to (which was like 50 feet farther), and then turned off at it. As soon as I got switched to ground, they told me to write down a number to call them at the tower. Both my first officer and I were like "WTF!" - once getting to the gate, I called them, the ATC supervisor asked why I was taxi'ing off the runway at such a slow speed. I told them the situation - that I was already in the process of turning off an "earlier" intersection and then the controller came on and wanted me to go to the next intersection, I kicked the nose back left onto the runway at the speed I was at and I complied with the tower controllers instructions! The supervisor understood and thanked me for calling him and nothing came of it.

This just goes to show that even when trying to help them out by doing what they instructed, you can still get a "please call this number"

ATC, stop telling us when to turn off on the runway - its our runway - the entire length if we want it. If you want us to "expedite off the runway," tell us on the approach to the runway, don't tell us while we are in the flare to get off at ABCDE intersection!
 
My technique is to tell you that I would apprecaite minimum time on the runway, while you are still on appraoch. However, there are some superviors that feel that this new and improved mandate to give y'all detailed taxi routes requires that we tell you where to exit the runway as part of that new requirement.....and this happens on rollout....when you appear to be a taxi speed. (The word "appears" is itialicized b/c what you think is a reasonable and safe speed may not be what someone from a mile away and 13 floors up percieves as the same).
This is one of those areas where having controllers ride on fams in the the jumpseats would benefit the pilots. Unfortunately, that ability was taken away from us after 9/11. This was a terrific opportunity for you pilots to share items (exactly like this) with your non-flying ATC counterparts. It gave the controllers an opportunity to see how busy you are on rollout, go around, etc. We lost a valuable training tool with the loss of the fam program.
 
Last edited:
However, there are some superviors that feel that this new and improved mandate to give y'all detailed taxi routes requires that we tell you where to exit the runway as part of that new requirement.....and this happens on rollout....when you appear to be a taxi speed.

What are you talking about? I never heard of a new "mandate" of any kind allowing controllers to tell pilots "what taxiway" to turn off at? Thats ridiculous and unsafe in my opinion. You can call our Chief Pilot and tell him yourself why we blew 2 tires trying to make a taxiway you assigned us. Sorry sir, won't happen...at least not in the aircraft I'm PIC in.
 
I get off when it's safe to, simple as that. I do expedite when needed/asked, as to not screw the crew behind me.
 
Just don't answer them. Focus on what is at hand. We can work out the taxi instructions when the workload is lower.
 
What are you talking about? I never heard of a new "mandate" of any kind allowing controllers to tell pilots "what taxiway" to turn off at? Thats ridiculous and unsafe in my opinion. You can call our Chief Pilot and tell him yourself why we blew 2 tires trying to make a taxiway you assigned us. Sorry sir, won't happen...at least not in the aircraft I'm PIC in.

The one that says that ATC must give detailed taxi instructions to all A/C now. Started about a month or so ago and there was a thread on it. They will no longer say "taxi to runway 16" They have to say "taxi to runway 16 via alpha" ..and it appears the same is true for taxing to the ramp/gate. Must say "taxi to the gate via Fox" I could see where some guys would think that they have to tell you which taxi way to make in order to comply with that, but that seems far fetched to me. Either way its really not a big deal if you think you're going to fast to make a turn off then tell them unable if you have time if not then just pass it up and make the first one you think you safely can...and if you get asked questions just tell them you were going too fast to make the one they asked you to.
 
The one that says that ATC must give detailed taxi instructions to all A/C now. Started about a month or so ago and there was a thread on it. They will no longer say "taxi to runway 16" They have to say "taxi to runway 16 via alpha" ..and it appears the same is true for taxing to the ramp/gate.

The "mandate" I was talking about was taxi instructions from the "runway" via an intersection to a taxiway. Thats absurd and I'm sure there is not one that exists.
 
Maybe I should qualify this further: The FARs say that if you are unable to comply with a clearance, you will let ATC know ASAP. Just do that. Be professional, but the safe operation of your aircraft is your # 1 priority.
 
No good deed goes unpunished.

That call could have ended up a little differently depending on how your actions were interpreted and by whom. I don't doubt you could've got hit with something like careless/reckless as your actions indicated you were about to turn off and then turned back on with traffic on short final. They'll say you have final authority and should have known better. Blah Blah Blah.

Other than LAHSO which you sort of agree to, you otherwise own the runway and I would take whatever exit suits the speed best.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top