Interview at Airways

[Bringupthebird]

The "suck" factor comes in when the west pilot is placed below any "third list" pilot that has chosen to return to the east. The company is OK with this, and USAPA is really OK with this (never mind the fact that the west pilot would be senior to the third list pilot on either the Nicolau seniority list OR the Date-Of-Hire seniority list).
:beer:

Are you sure about that? I thought the 3rd list consisted of new hires added after the PID but before integration of the joint list (contract ratification). Weren't the east pilots that were recalled to the west given their east longevity [as 3rd listers] on the west and let out of any seat locks to return to the east whenever they wanted?

The real shame is that this has dragged on so long as to become ancient history, taxing the memory!

 

[Trogdor]

Are you sure about that? I thought the 3rd list consisted of new hires added after the PID but before integration of the joint list (contract ratification). Weren't the east pilots that were recalled to the west given their east longevity [as 3rd listers] on the west and let out of any seat locks to return to the east whenever they wanted?

The real shame is that this has dragged on so long as to become ancient history, taxing the memory!

West pilots out east keep their longevity for pay purposes, but are placed below any original east or 3rd list east pilots on the seniority list. Any west pilots who accept east recall will be slotted in with other original west or 3rd list west pilots in their original order.

For what its worth, as an east 3rd lister I don't think this is the right thing to do.

 

[denny]

USAPA adheres tightly to the Frank Lorenzo style of union management.

 

[FR8mastr]

sorry to burst the balloon of all the USAPA bashers, but...

The way any and all recalls and newhire positions are filled goes according to the Transition Agreement.

The Transition Agreement for those of you who really don't know is a new section of contract that covers this exact scenario and others like who flies what.

This was put into place by ALPA both East and West long before any of the current crap took place.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Was the intent of the designers of the transition agreemment that it last indefinitely?

 

[Turtle21]

Was the intent of the designers of the transition agreemment that it last indefinitely?

No. Just until the joint contract is ratified.

How is Polar and Atlas doing?

 

[The Rookie]

sorry to burst the balloon of all the USAPA bashers, but...

The way any and all recalls and newhire positions are filled goes according to the Transition Agreement.

The Transition Agreement for those of you who really don't know is a new section of contract that covers this exact scenario and others like who flies what.

This was put into place by ALPA both East and West long before any of the current crap took place.

Maybe you should try reading the Transition Agreement.

New pilots hired during the Separate Operations will be placed by their date of hire on a third seniority list entitled “New Hire Seniority List,” will be junior to all pilots on the pilot seniority lists of America West and US Airways on the effective date of this Letter of Agreement, and will continue to be junior to those pilots on the integrated seniority list of America West and US Airways pilots.

Besides the injustice of where the recalled west pilots fall on the east list during separate operations, the situation now exists where pilots in the SAME new-hire class who were recalled to the east are penalized by the simple fact that they ended up in positions in Phoenix when originally hired through no fault of their own. These pilots are now 20+ numbers junior to their classmates.

 

[ALGFLYR]

Maybe you should try reading the Transition Agreement.

New pilots hired during the Separate Operations will be placed by their date of hire on a third seniority list entitled “New Hire Seniority List,” will be junior to all pilots on the pilot seniority lists of America West and US Airways on the effective date of this Letter of Agreement, and will continue to be junior to those pilots on the integrated seniority list of America West and US Airways pilots.

Besides the injustice of where the recalled west pilots fall on the east list during separate operations, the situation now exists where pilots in the SAME new-hire class who were recalled to the east are penalized by the simple fact that they ended up in positions in Phoenix when originally hired through no fault of their own. These pilots are now 20+ numbers junior to their classmates.

The key here is what I underlined above... Any West pilot that goes East, will basically go as a new hire (except for pay - they get their longevity). They will remain junior until a new contract is ratified and an integrated seniority list is used. If and when that day comes, they will immediately go up the seniority list to their proper place... As for new hires that went West and then furloughed, then recalled East, the same thing will happen... yes they may lose those 20 numbers, but they will get them back whenever an integrated list is ratified in a new contract...

 

[eaglesview]

The key here is what I underlined above... Any West pilot that goes East, will basically go as a new hire (except for pay - they get their longevity). They will remain junior until a new contract is ratified and an integrated seniority list is used. If and when that day comes, they will immediately go up the seniority list to their proper place... As for new hires that went West and then furloughed, then recalled East, the same thing will happen... yes they may lose those 20 numbers, but they will get them back whenever an integrated list is ratified in a new contract...

This sounds like there really is no reason for a west guy to not take the recall. If he is furloughed he was junior anyway. Reality is if it take a few more years to integrate then he will quickly become more senior on the east side than he would have had he been able to hang on to the bottom of the west list. Plus he has the "protection" of the nic.

 

[The Rookie]

The key here is what I underlined above... Any West pilot that goes East, will basically go as a new hire (except for pay - they get their longevity). They will remain junior until a new contract is ratified and an integrated seniority list is used. If and when that day comes, they will immediately go up the seniority list to their proper place... As for new hires that went West and then furloughed, then recalled East, the same thing will happen... yes they may lose those 20 numbers, but they will get them back whenever an integrated list is ratified in a new contract...

You're overlooking the statement immediately preceding that says:

New pilots hired during the Separate Operations will be placed by their date of hire on a third seniority list entitled “New Hire Seniority List,” will be junior to all pilots on the pilot seniority lists of America West and US Airways on the effective date of this Letter of Agreement, and will continue to be junior to those pilots on the integrated seniority list of America West and US Airways pilots.

First, these pilots are supposed to be on a third seniority list, entitled "New Hire Seniority List". Ranked in order of their DOH. Not when a joint contract happens, but right now.

How can you justify the fact that the these new hire pilots are not out of order on the east list?

Futher, according to this language, these pilots are supposed to be junior to the pilots that were employed by both America West and US Airways at the effective date of the TA (9/30/05).

Furthermore, this is the language that protects pilots from either side of the Mississippi when being recalled to "the other operation":
A US Airways pilot who accepts a position at America West:
a) will be treated as junior to all pilots who are on the America West seniority list on the effective date of this Letter of Agreement, but pilots on the US Airways seniority list employed by America West under this paragraph 6 will be ranked among themselves in their order on the US Airways seniority list;

Once again, there's that pesky language of "effective date.." As in 9/20/05. Not as in junior to whoever was on the east list at the time of the furloughs in 2008 as the company claims. No where in the TA does it say that these pilots should be treated as new hires on the other operation. If that was the case they would not be grouped in order of their original AWA seniority but would be slotted in whenever they came to the east. You are just regurgitating the gospel of Bular & Hogg.

Look, the fact of the matter is that USAPA is supposed to be a union built on DOH, yet they blatantly ignore the language in the TA that is supposed to protect both the east recalled pre-merger AWA and post merger hire pilot's DOH. USAPA is simply doing everything in its power to discourage any west pilots to come east because it destroys the notion that the two groups will ever fly together safely.

If the tables were turned and this was "an east" problem, USAPA would be screaming bloody murder. And that, is yet another example of USAPA not fairly representing ALL of its constituents.